TC Helicon Play Acoustic - Output setting

[Marty C]

For those of you who use a Play Acoustic regularly, I am interested in how your signal path is routed. Do you use stereo out to the board/FOH? Do you go straight to a powered speaker? Do you DI out to a board and then to powered speaker? Just curious.

Mainly the output setting. Are you stereo out, mono out or DI out?

Also, are you using anything before or after your Play Acoustic for EQ?

[Mischief]

Howdy,
Hopefully others chime in but the short basic answer is yes...
Don't worry I'll give you my way too long answer too. 🤦*♂️

You see for me it depends. If I'm playing solo one mic one guitar I'll DI direct to my powered speaker. If though I was playing as a duo and the other person had no such pedal I would use a small mixer and then I may mono out to the desk or stereo depending on the circumstance.

If I'm playing as a guest or something then often I don't use the pedal at all but times that I do then I stereo to FOH so the sound guy has the main control over the guitar and vocal mix.

Overall I find the pedal direct to my powered speaker works excellent. But when more channels are needed then a small mixer in conjunction works great. That's when I may mono and send that DI to 1 of my 2 Chanel's on my DBR. Or I may use just one channel on my desk or I may stereo using two channels on the desk or one to the desk and one DI to speaker. Usually there's no point in that unless for a very specific reason but the option is there.

So I don't think you need a desk for quality of sound purpose. Mono is great when you are controlling your entire mix at the pedal and DI to powered speaker say if your speaker has only one channel or if you need to consolidate to free up an extra channel etc.

Stereo is great when you want to control the mix from a board or add FX etc to one channel post pedal or when a sound man is controlling the mix or sending to record live etc. the pedal is remarkably flexible that's why there are optional ways. However if it's simple and it's working then go with it. No need to over complicate it unless to accommodate a need.

My simplest set up for solo is Guitar/Mic > acoustic play pedal >mono > powered speaker.


As far as EQ I don't use anything before or after the pedal however when Was using a lyric pickup then the extra para EQ on my mixer helped. But with my Takamine it's not required. So I think extra EQ is individual. I do not require anything extra for vox outside the pedal.

Ymmv

One last note on signal chain. At times I may run other pedals like my Beat buddy pedal, when solo, I send that to Auxiliary and if I'm using my Octaver pedal it's pre the acoustic pedal; Guitar>octaver> Play Acoustic pedal> DI mono >powered speaker. Other times I may want to split my octaver sound sending the dry on it's path to the acoustic play pedal and the FX signal to the mixer, a bass pedal then to mixer or other. Once I start to have more then 2 or three channels then using a mixer simplifies the process.

Not sure if the last part is of any benefit to you or not.

I hope that helps.

[Marty C]

Thanks Mischief. It does help. With the Lyric, what type of eq (I.e. Cut the mids) did you need to do on the mixer.

[Mischief]

Originally Posted by Marty C

Thanks Mischief. It does help. With the Lyric, what type of eq (I.e. Cut the mids) did you need to do on the mixer.

I will mention first I was using the lyric in a very small parlor with a very responsive top. I ultimately swapped that pickup out for K&K pure mini as the lyric did not play well in that guitar (I still have the lyric and think it can be a great pickup). Shortly after I sold that guitar to fund my Takamine pro.

However when I used my set up with the lyric I could get a decent sound, my biggest issue was plug and play with other groups or house gear.

Having said that with the lyric to get a decent sound I used one of the Body Rez I think #3 ? I can't recall but it was suggested for the lyric on a thread somewhere. I then heavily customized it anyway.

Then I took full advantage of the pedals other EQ ing power. Sweeping for problem frequencies heavily shaping the sound by all means possible.

I also used a frequency analyzer app to confirm suspect frequencies.

After all that I indeed cut more mids on my mixer and boosted bottom end by a hair. Leaving the treble flat. I could have easily used another 4 para EQ's for further adjusting.


Now with my Takamine it's a completely different story. I just selected the most appropriate body Rez. Then used the EQ to maximize the natural tone. I also have the cool tube CT-3 preamp on my guitar which allows a para mid cut, some notch and bass treble adjustments. So I cut a bit at 550Hz at the guitar, boost the treble by a hair and leave the bass flat. If I need more drive I can bump the bass a hair as that's all it takes. No further EQ is required and the results are very very good. More then happy to DI with the TC pedal directly into my powered speaker. If I finger pick I just make sure bass is flat at guitar and treble is boosted a little. Works perfect.

Of corse I'm always interested in the best sound possible so I'm adding a Mic to blend in on my preamp. Not sure how or if that will effect my use of the pedal yet. Since it sounds so good as is I think I'll just blend in like 5-20% mic and likely just have to cut a little treble off my palathetic pickup and let the mic create more air. Hopefully the pedal will remain as set. That way I can pull back the mic and make any needed adjustment at the guitar without touching anything else.

Cheers

[Marty C]

Thanks again. Funny after all the adjustments in the Play Acoustic, I found bodyrez 3 to be the best fit as well. In addition, I also did some heavy eq work to that one as well.

I had a K & K mini in my guitar before the Lyric. I could never get the mid and bass cut low enough. I just thought it was the combo of guitar and pickup that wasn't a good marriage. I purchased the Lyric and decided to take the k & k out. Upon removal, I noticed the two outside disks where larger and green. When I checked with k & k, they said I had a 12 string pickup. This pickup was meant to be bass and mid heavy and sometimes used in small guitar. I have a Martin dread. The guitar was then 10 years old. I had this put in when it was new from the shop I purchased the guitar from. Never was happy with the sound. Too late to return and complain. I already had the Lyric, so I decided to give it a try.

I like the Lyric best going straight to the mixer. The Play Acoustic does something funny to this pickup. I cannot dial it out. Especially the treble strings. It almost sounds like they are buzzing on the frets. If I mic the guitar or go straight to the mixer, no buzzing is heard. I tried setting the Play Acoustic flat, but it does not help. There is no true bypass in this pedal. Unless I am missing something.

Currently, I use a small Mackie mixer. I run the Play Acoustic in stereo and input to channels 1 & 2. This is for Vocals only. I run the guitar direct the channel three and send it only to the monitor out. From monitor out, I go to the guitar in on the Play Acoustic and turn the guitar output to zero. I use this only to drive the harmonies.

I tried a Baggs para di before and after the Play Acoustic. Seemed to help a little, but not much. I tried some older units I still have laying around (Boss AD-5 and Zoom a2) which both sound better. But I still have to run the routing as I listed above going to the mixer first.

Could this be an impedance thing? Any additional ideas? Short of taking the Lyric out and replacing it with the correct k & k, I am at a loss. The sound is not bad, just sounds way better going straight to the mixer. I love the guitar effects in the Play Acoustic and routing this way, I cannot use them.

I truely apprecieate your help!

[martingitdave]

I use the dual mono DI. One for vox and one for guitar. I go to my JBL Eon One or the Mackie DLM8. The Mackie preamps stink, so I boost guitar gain to 15 dB with the Mackie and about 5 dB with the JBL.

Many of us who have used the Lyric were unsuccessful with post guitar EQ. I gave up and removed it and went with a K&K the first time. Now I'm using the Trance Amulet M. A pickup works better with the Play Acoustic and the preamp pedals. I believe Lyric is designed to go to the board with nothing much in between, except perhaps a DI box to change from high Z to low Z. If your board has a high Z input you can skip the DI box.

You can also consider the Tonedexter in place of the Play Acoustic for the guitar.

My opinion is that the Lyric has no bottom end intentionally. They EQ all of it out and use filters and compressors to keep it from feeding back. It is a nice mic for the high end, but does nothing for the low end. I would use the K&K, Anthem or the Trance.

I am using the Trance, Play Acoustic, to Mixer, to Eon One. I have a new QSC TouchMix 8 on order to replace my mixer. Once I get the new mixer, I may not need use the Play Acoustic.

I hope you get it sorted out soon. I know how frustrating this process can be when you are chasing after the sound in your head and can't reproduce it through a PA or amplifier.

Good luck Marty!

[Edit]

I read your most recent post. You might need to go to custom Body Rez and develop your own parametric EQ, compressor and gate settings, if you intend to use the Lyric with the Play Acoustic. This is both complicated and long winded. I'd be willing to setup a call with you to discuss what I learned. Too much to type. In a nutshell start with the flat EQ setting to turn off the Body Rez. If it doesn't sound like straight into the board, try adjusting input gain in the setup menu. If it still doesn't sound like straight into the board, send me a PM or try calling to TC Helicon and see if someone CS can offer a tip.


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[Hummingbird1983]

Interesting that this post has gone through ages. I’m having a problem with the TC Helicon. I use it through a Yamaha Stagepas, stereo output. Working fine for weeks, but now, the low end sounds almost ‘blown’. The low end just shorts out. I have tried looking at the gain dial. Is there any ideal setting ? I usually have it below 12 o clock. I’ve tried to switch the guitar out cable and having the same problem. It is definitely a problem with the PA, as it works absolutely fine through the mixer with the Stagepas effects.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Hummingbird1983

Interesting that this post has gone through ages. I’m having a problem with the TC Helicon. I use it through a Yamaha Stagepas, stereo output. Working fine for weeks, but now, the low end sounds almost ‘blown’. The low end just shorts out. I have tried looking at the gain dial. Is there any ideal setting ? I usually have it below 12 o clock. I’ve tried to switch the guitar out cable and having the same problem. It is definitely a problem with the PA, as it works absolutely fine through the mixer with the Stagepas effects.

Plug earphones into the Play and see how it sounds. That would be my first troubleshooting step. For input levels, you want it high enough for the green light to come on, not so high it turns orange. Guitar level is set separate from voice (meaning don't be singing while trying to set guitar input level and vice versa).

[Marty C]

There is also a high pass filter in the settings. Make sure that didn’t somehow change. I think the default is around 60 and I mostly run mine between 90-100.

[nostatic]

Also I’ve found the compressor can sound pretty rough at higher ratio and/ or lower threshold.

[leew3]

Straight to a powered speaker here and I'm with Dave about the custom BodyRez. I don't use anything before or after the PlayAcoustic that I run direct to either a Bose S1 or LB Artist depending on the setting.

[Hummingbird1983]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Plug earphones into the Play and see how it sounds. That would be my first troubleshooting step. For input levels, you want it high enough for the green light to come on, not so high it turns orange. Guitar level is set separate from voice (meaning don't be singing while trying to set guitar input level and vice versa).

Yes I’ve done that and attempted to isolate the problem. I’m only starting out and I do a lot of live streams with the PA too. So, I actually come across these settings from someone who was having the same issue. And mine are not far off. Anyone who uses the PA for USB will know the output level is quite low, so I have the outputs high to then control them from the Stagepas. I’ve noticed that the output in the mixer was high too and hasn’t been changed to the settings I would need for the live performance.

Makes sense now that the inputs are absolutely fine, no clipping, good sound through the headphones, but the outputs to the mixer were high. The mixer is a very basic mixer with recommended settings. I very rarely tweak them with gains all set optimally. I’m hoping that this fixes the problem.

[guitarxan]

Hi

I run my play acoustic stereo out to my Fishman sa330X. Guitar to channel 1, mike to channel 2. For the guitar, I use a bit of delay reverb and chorus and Body Rez 3. As well. I leave the SA330X reverb off. I have a Boss RC30 in from of the Play acoustic.

[AeroUSA]

Just want to add to this. I’ve had no problem with the TC stuff and the Lyric. I just use the EQ or notch to remove the resonant peak around 130hz. Works great!

[Hummingbird1983]

Originally Posted by Hummingbird1983

Yes I’ve done that and attempted to isolate the problem. I’m only starting out and I do a lot of live streams with the PA too. So, I actually come across these settings from someone who was having the same issue. And mine are not far off. Anyone who uses the PA for USB will know the output level is quite low, so I have the outputs high to then control them from the Stagepas. I’ve noticed that the output in the mixer was high too and hasn’t been changed to the settings I would need for the live performance.

Makes sense now that the inputs are absolutely fine, no clipping, good sound through the headphones, but the outputs to the mixer were high. The mixer is a very basic mixer with recommended settings. I very rarely tweak them with gains all set optimally. I’m hoping that this fixes the problem.

So since, I’ve sorted this problem, but I now feel the TC guitar output is too bright. Like almost everyone, I use Body Rez 3 but struggling with the sound. I’m thinking of using an IR pedal now for a more natural sound, as I can’t get past it. Considering 3 options; Nux optima air, LR Baggs Voice print or tone Dexter.