Best sound yet with recording acoustic - mic placement by a pro

[815C]

I did three sessions in the last week at a high studio in Nashville - I'd guess there was a million dollars of gear in there at the minimum. There were two engineers setting up the guitar sound. The songs were just a female vocalist and acoustic guitar. I was very happy with the guitar tone on the recording - the best I've experienced yet.

They used two Shure KSM32 mics placed like this....

One mic was placed parallel to the neck of the guitar, with the grill end of the mic pointing toward the bridge and the bottom of the mic (where the cable connects) pointing towards the headstock. It was placed about 8" directly in front of the sound hole with the diaphragm POINTING STRAIGHT DOWN TO THE FLOOR.

The second mic was place with the grill end of the mic pointing straight at the sound hole with the cable end of the mic pointing away from the guitar at 90 degrees with the diaphragm POINTING STRAIGHT UP TO THE CEILING. The top/grill of the mic was about 8" directly in front of the sound hole.

The two mics were almost touching - maybe 1/8 of an inch apart at the grill end and at 90 degrees to one another - in an "L" shape.

Before placing the mics, one engineer had me play while he had his ear right down in front of my guitar. He moved his head around listening until he found the sweet spot. Thats where the two mics were placed. Unless you are a circus contortionist this may be difficult to do when recording at home by yourself. What I plan to do is put on the headphones and have one of my kids hold the two mics at the 90 degree position and move them around in front of the sound hole until we find the right sound. Another way to find this spot is to strum a chord, and while its still ringing pick up your guitar and hold it so that the face of the guitar is right in front of you (a few inches from your head), turn your head to the side so your ear is facing forward, close your eyes and move the guitar around so that your ear getting to hear the sound coming from various points of the guitar face as you move the guitar around while the chord is ringing out. You will hear significant differences in tone as you move the guitar around.

They kept the EQ pretty flat but added a bit of high end EQ to add some sparkle, a bit of compression, and some really nice reverb. I was playing my Dell'Arte dreadnaught with Curt Mangan strings which is a pretty sweet combo.

I'm looking forward to trying this at home to see if it improves my sound. I don't have Shure KSM32 (which in the world of mics are not really that expensive), but the engineers said the technique should work fine with any condenser mics. They said this mic placement had a name - which I cannot recall. It was named after the engineer who came up with it. Maybe one of you guys know what the name of this technique is.

Let me know if you try this - or are already using this technique - and how it works for you.

Ciao

[Scott Whigham]

I'm trying to understand but it's just not happening, despite your excellent descriptions. Are either of these close?





It sounds like a variation on coincident pair (x/y) but I'm really struggling to visualize it.

[moon]

It sounds like sort of a vertical XY with a 180 degree angle.

First thing that springs to mind is that the loudest sounds hitting the mics will be off-axis so:

(1) you'd need mics with very good off-axis response
(2) you'd need a very good room

Never heard of or tried this before though.

[815C]

Originally Posted by Scott Whigham

I'm trying to understand but it's just not happening, despite your excellent descriptions. Are either of these close?

Think of an "L" with each leg of the L being a mic and the grills/diaphragms of the mics meeting at the intersection of the two legs of the L.

The lay the L on its side so that both legs are parallel to the floor.

One leg is running parallel the the neck.

The other leg is perpendicular to the guitar (as if someone in the audience shot an arrow into the sound hole of your guitar and the arrow was protruding out the sound hole.

The mic running parallel to the neck has the diaphragm pointed straight down towards the floor.

The other mic's diaphragm is aimed straight up towards the ceiling.

I realize this is hard to describe. This weekend I'll try to recreate it at home and take a picture.

[Brent Hutto]

That's more a variation on mid-side then, no?

[bobby b]

Trying to picture this too....

The mics you mention are 'side address' mics, the diaphragm is at the face of the mic, not at the top or end. Does this match your description of how the diaphragms are positioned.

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

That's more a variation on mid-side then, no?

No, mid-side means a very specific array of bi-directional mic at right angles to the source and center mic aimed at the source, then the two signals combined in a specific way.

The array described is carefully aiming both mics to use their off-axis response.

**edit** Is this a reasonable representation of the array?



Fran

[sdelsolray]

I can't picture the config from the OP's description (no fault of the description, just my ability to understand). Pics would help. Perhaps Fran's photo describes it well.

Notwithstanding the prime directive "If it sounds good it is good", it seems that the config relies heavily on the off-axis response of the mics. No mic (that I know of) responds the same off-axis as on-axis, although a few are close. When the off-axis of the mic is pointed at the source, query what the on-axis of the mic is pointing at. It would seem that the room (or the floor, ceiling, but not the original source) is the "source" for the on-axis view of the mic. I'm sure that could sound great or interesting with the right room.

[rick-slo]

I have tried something similar though with the mikes spaced further apart.

With the mikes close to the guitar yet pointing penpendicular to the guitar you get some proximity warmth
but also get more air and natural space from the reflections from room boundaries. I did not stick with it but
I might try it again with more coincident mic'ing and see how it sounds.

A recording of what you got would be nice.

[815C]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

No, mid-side means a very specific array of bi-directional mic at right angles to the source and center mic aimed at the source, then the two signals combined in a specific way.

The array described is carefully aiming both mics to use their off-axis response.

**edit** Is this a reasonable representation of the array?



Fran

That's it!

The diaphragm of the mic on the left was pointed down, and the other mic's diaphragm was pointed up.

Thanks Fran!

[815C]

I may be able to get a picture of the room - the singer was taking some pictures and I'll see if I can get one.

[815C]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

It would seem that the room (or the floor, ceiling, but not the original source) is the "source" for the on-axis view of the mic. I'm sure that could sound great or interesting with the right room.

On the first & third sessions I recorded in a large room - probably 20' x 20'. Without doubt, this room was exceptional. On the 2nd session, I was in a small isolation room that was probably 6' x 6'. In both rooms the sound in my head phones was the really good - but the larger room did sound better.

[Ty Ford]

What I've been saying all along! Go to a place where the room sounds good and the engineer knows what to do. So what was the hourly rate?

Regards,

Ty Ford

[815C]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

So what was the hourly rate?

No clue. I got hired to play so I don't know. I'm hoping to get some more work at that studio and I'll find out if I go back.

[Ty Ford]

With your chops, they'd be silly not to.

Congrats on the new gig!

Ty