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#31
02-17-2020, 05:28 PM
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My longtime personal preference for picks is for celluloid medium-heavy picks, .084mm, which used to be more widely available than they are these days. D’Andrea is currently the only company still making them.
I like them because they still have a little bit of flex, which I like for rhythm parts, but are stiff enough that I can get good tone for melodic lines, particularly if I choke my grip tightly or turn the pick around and use one of the rounded edges. I use them not only for guitar but for mountain dulcimer and, with the rounded edges, mandolin. The medium-heavies are hard to find in music stores these days, but fortunately they’re available on Amazon. Quite honestly, I loathe the tone that most plastic formulations other than celluloid produce when being wielded by my hands. However, I do like the tone that Vespel produces, so I also own several Blue Chip TD-35 picks. These are in the same shape as my longtime standby celluloid medium-heavies, and have a similar minimal but discernible amount of flex. The Blue Chips are a godsend for mandolin so far as I’m concerned: they seem immune to the sort of wear that the high tension double courses quickly inflict on celluloid picks. So they’re virtually all that I use on mandolin anymore, and they’ve probably spared me dozens of chewed up celluloid picks that I would have otherwise generated in the five or six years that I’ve been using the Blue Chips. I realize that many might find it odd that I use a pick with some flex to it on mandolin, but as a multi-instrumentalist I decided decades ago to use these same medium-heavies on every instrument I play, so that regardless of what pick I pulled out of my pocket, it would be the correct one. When you’re playing for an impatient bar crowd, every split second counts. Now that I’m primarily a church musician I can afford to decide on either a Blue Chip or a celluloid pick without having to worry about projectile beer bottles flying through the air, but back in my saloon singer days that would have been a dainty little luxury that I couldn’t afford.... So I learned how to get different tones from my pick by how I gripped it: how tightly, how close or far from the tip I held it, and which edge I chose to use. When I read some posts on here I’m often struck by how passive so many players are about generating tone, as if that’s entirely the job of the pick and the player can’t even guide much less change that. Which seems like kind of an abdication of responsibility to me, frankly. The main part of the tone you generate is in your hands, and while some pick materials might make that easier for you, the majority of it is still in your hands - your attack, how and where you grip the pick and where you strike the strings. For me it’s easiest to accomplish all my musical tasks with medium-heavy celluloid and Vespel. If I worked at it I know I could learn to coax better tone out the synthetic pick materials that I dislike, but I’ve developed a system that works for me, and don’t see much point in pursuing the challenge of developing good tone from those other materials. What I’ve got works nicely for me, thank you. Hope that makes sense. Wade Hampton Miller 
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#32
02-17-2020, 05:55 PM
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It all makes perfect sense. I say that because I am still working on my picking technique and don't have it where I want it yet. I only play guitar and some piano. Almost any pick works on a piano.
 But, you are spot on when you say it isn't always the pick, in fact if the truth were known most likely it usually isn't. I sometimes turn my pick around to the rounded side also especially if I want a warmer tone, but I admit I have a ways to go until I am a good picker. I appreciate the detailed response.
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#33
02-17-2020, 06:40 PM
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Consensus on AGF for years now would be that there are a lot of great pick choices on the market for under $10. I still think Dunlop is the best place to start, with Tortex, Ultex and Primetones. Other names that come up frequently are Wegen, Clayton and John Pearse.
sm
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#34
02-17-2020, 06:48 PM
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I have a couple of Blue Chips which I like a lot however I also really like Taylor Thermex Ultra 1.25.
So I bounce back and forth between the two
__________________
Taylor GS-mini Mahogany Yamaha FGX5 Taylor 114 Martin D-16e Goldtone CCR100 Banjo Fender Albert Hammond Jr. Strat Fender Player limited edition Cherry Burst Strat Fender Squire Classic Vibe Tele
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#35
02-17-2020, 06:51 PM
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I have 3 BC picks , but much prefer
Clayton NuTone protein picks ( a bit bright) Dunlop Tortex 1.14 , much warmer and my current favorite is Fender Tru-Shell , medium or heavy in large triangle these have warmth and clarity , I highly recommend 
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#36
02-17-2020, 07:08 PM
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Blue Chip TD50. I started with a TD40 that I bought on a whim from Lowe Vintage way back when I had no bills and money burning a hole in my pocket, but after talking with the BC guys, went up to the 50 when I actually ordered one later. I just enjoy the feel and tone I get from that pick. Super warm without a ton of “clack” and string noise on the notes. It also helps that the price forces me to actually keep up with it. FWIW, I have used and enjoyed primetones, as well. I’m all for trying new stuff, and I’m not a devotee of any one brand, I just haven’t been on the lookout for anything to replace my TD50 yet.
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#37
02-17-2020, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
I always say the same thing to everyone: "If you've never played a good quality casein plastic pick, your plectrum journey is not complete." And I truly mean that. The short version: I never planned to be in the pick business. Never ever. I'm an English professor. Five years ago I made about half a dozen casein picks, only for myself (becasue I'm cheap). When my friends played them they demanded under penalty of death that I make some for them. That's how this whole thing started. Dude, I had NO plans. I totally backed into this thing. Because of casein. I am the worst tone chaser I know. I'm obsessed. I pay upwards of $1000 just for pick up systems in my guitars. I have played genuine TS picks for more than forty years. I still do. I know what nirvana sounds like. CLP used to sell picks made from Vespel for four years until Blue Chip received their patent in Dec (bravo to them). Vespel is a terrific material, and we hope someday to renew production. But most people I know, once they've played casein, they usually don't go back, or they play both in different playing settings. If someone says to me that they've found the best material but has never played casein, I just hand them a casein pick, and watch their eyes get very big. Here's what one sounds like. This is a .75 mm. Here's the best news of all. As docwatsonfan mentions above, there are some terrific casein picks on the market for under $10. They are the Clayton:  The Fenders:  And most people's favorite, including mine, the excellent models from John Pearse:  Please please please avail yourself of the opportunity to try this amazing material. Weird stuff, bizarre, impossible to work with, but boy what tone. Memmer Out Last edited by Charmed Life Picks; 02-17-2020 at 09:15 PM.
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#38
02-18-2020, 05:54 AM
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Scott’s knowledge on this topic is something to definitely pay attention to. My experience after traveling down this road is that every guitar that I have likes a different pick. It was a fun journey but even non-musicians could hear the same things I did and agreed with me. But in general, my advice is to try Ultex picks (primetone or Ultex), a casein pick and a vespel pick. Beware that casein doesn’t bend very well. It will snap. My buddy just snapped my Fast Turtle a while back by trying to bend it and gauge its thickness.
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Guild D55 Gibson Southern Jumbo Farida OT-22
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#39
02-18-2020, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
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#40
02-18-2020, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
There was one guy here on the forum a few years back whose standard joke was that custom guitar builders should listen to prospective customers play and then refuse to build them a guitar if they used a pick any thinner than 2.0 mm. Ho ho ho. Hee hee hee. Har dee har har... I pointed out that both Doc Watson and bluegrass great Dan Crary used medium gauge picks, and said I’d happily post links to some of their recordings if he’d be so kind as to provide recordings of himself. That way we could compare them and hear how much better HIS tone was. Strangely enough, he never followed through on that.... Wade Hampton Miller
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#41
02-18-2020, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
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#42
02-18-2020, 07:17 AM
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No great loss in that guy’s case.
whm
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#43
02-18-2020, 07:39 AM
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Incidentally, what I’ve found when I’ve had a chance to meet guitar forum and newsgroup participants in person and hear them play is that the guys who are that snobbish over minutia like that are invariably the lousiest players.
Back in the UseNet days, when most of us acoustic guitar fanatics online participated on rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic (RMMGA) there were two guys in particular who were just scathing when it came to any tonewood other than Brazilian rosewood: “For MY music, I need not only Brazilian rosewood but the finest Brazilian rosewood!” I met both of those guys at guitar events in California, and to my initial surprise neither of them could play their way out of a wet paper bag! (Later when I thought about it, it made perfect sense.) Both of those guys were personally wealthy, so they could get custom guitar builders to build whatever they wanted, but neither of them could change chords in tempo, they had a hard time going from a first position C chord to a first position G chord, and B minor was entirely beyond them both. One of them couldn’t even tune his guitar using an electronic tuner, and handed it in frustration to his wife to finish tuning it for him. This, by the way, was just after he’d sneered at me for using a flatpick instead of playing fingerstyle. Which was another one of his mantras on RMMGA - only fingerstyle players really “play” guitar: people who use picks are all just strokers, in his opinion. Yet both of those incompetents required only the finest Brazilian rosewood for “their music.” Since I never met the guy in person or heard him play I’m speculating, obviously, but I strongly suspect that Mr. 2.0 mm Pick Guy plays guitar at a similar skill level. whm Last edited by Wade Hampton; 02-18-2020 at 07:45 AM.
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#44
02-18-2020, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
As far as guitar goes I only play classic country music, and when I say classic I am talking the old stuff. Haggard, Jones, Paycheck, Wagoner, Frizzell, etc.. I have had a few guitars and they have all been more than adequate for me. I just traded a very nice Blueridge BR 160-A for a Taylor 214CE blk dlx. I still can't do it justice, but I am a strummer which allows me to sing all my favorite country tunes with most any guitar. It is really the only music I care about playing or singing, but I do have my chord progressions down and I can tune a guitar.  I don't claim to be Chet Atkins, but I enjoy doing what I do and to me that's all that matters. I currently have the Taylor, an old 1972 Yamaha F-160 that my parents gave me 50 years ago when I was 15, and a Jasmine by Takamine that my wife gave me for Christmas several years ago. I pick them all up from time to time, but of course I play my Taylor more than any of them. I really struggled between a Martin and the Taylor and I bet I played 50 different guitars one day in the Music store here where I live. I just prefer the Taylor sound. It is less twangy with very nice mid-tones and that is the sound I like in a guitar. The Blueridge was modeled after a Martin D28 and the sound of the two was very hard to tell apart. That's why I traded for the Taylor. Oh, and I also have a recently acquired bass that I love learning to play.
Last edited by wrightwrjr; 02-18-2020 at 10:32 AM.
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#45
02-18-2020, 10:50 AM
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Enjoying the back and forth, gents. Sally forth.
One thing that gets lost in all this pick talk is the most important element: The player. It is the player first, folks, always the player. You can throw the rest in the trash. Doc Watson played his entire career with thin, cheap nylon Hercos. He seemed to do okay. Something else that is exciting. There are more than a HUNDRED (100) industrial, engineering thermoplastics that have never been made into guitar picks by anyone. That is not at exaggerated number. For example, the material that BC uses, DuPont Vespel, has more than ten different versions of that material, some with very interesting additives. The brown Vespel used by Blue Chip is called the virgin, or unfilled, grade. All the other grades are charcoal or black, and ALL ARE MORE EXPENSIVE. And every major plastics company on the planet has their own version of Vespel (the patent has expired), and each one of those has five to ten varieties. We are at the very beginning of an exciting journey in guitar picks. It's just flat-out fun to be a guitarist these days. No material is for everybody, and most people I know will play different picks for different playing situations. If anyone would like to read more about casein picks, here's an older thread on them with more than 7000 page views. Vive la difference! https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=545397 I love exploring, and have always been insatiably curious about learning new things. So research is fun for me. As I tell my students, "Yeah, I have no life." But I think learning something new every day keeps us young. scott memmer Last edited by Charmed Life Picks; 02-18-2020 at 11:04 AM.
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