When do you move on...

[Deliberate1]

I am less than a year into my fingerstyle deep dive. I took lessons for several months, and they gave me a good foundation. Since then, I have been working on the same tunes I did during that time. I have also written one or two as well. Learning each tune has been a struggle, in one way or another. But I have always stuck wth it, and have been able to get down the basics of each one, even if it is not so pretty.
But, recently, I have dived into some James Taylor tunes which present a different challenge. As y'all know, he uses unique voicings and anything but a consistent, patterned bass, like the set and forget ones I am used to. Frankly, I have spent a couple rugged hours on just the first two measures of the introduction to one of them, trying to wrap my mind around it. And it is a tune that is etched in my brain. While I am no where near throwing in the towel, it does make me wonder how and when you decide that a piece is just beyond your pay grade, and move on to another than may be more attainable. And what do you do when you want that particular tune bad, but it does not want you back in the same way.
Thanks
David

[Tahitijack]

Move on knowing you can always come back...there are no time limits on learning. We are always learning. My piano teacher's advice is that although I might really love a song and want to play it, I might need to step back and return to it down the road a bit. I tend to learn to play the melody quickly but I am still learning the left hand chords. Some of my want to play songs have chords I still don't have under hand. We agree that I will get them and someday those want to play songs will fill out my set list. Play On!

[Bob Womack]

I work on songs in multiple "tracks." Each track represents a different activity:
1. A track for quick turnaround songs that are needed soon.
2. A track for songs that have a longer delivery time,
3. A track for songs or arrangements I am developing.
4. A track for songs I know, but that may need a refresher.
5. A track for Christmas songs, because I don't want to have cobwebs at Christmas.
6. My fun track. Songs just for me.

I can switch off during a particular sessions as needed or desired. Songs hop around between tracks as well.

Bob

[jazzereh]

Some good suggestions already but I'll add that I get there on some tunes as well. As noted above, if I really have issues with a tune I'll move on to something else and come back later with a clear mind.

Also, are you trying to learn a tune 'exactly' as it is performed or written out? I prefer to work up my own version of a tune keeping the original performed version in mind, of course. Any tune I do, I do it my way. Nobody is going to tell you that what you do is wrong [if anyone does, ignore them].

And, don't just work on the first couple of bars. Go at another part of the tune then put things together in the correct sequence later on. Playing guitar is supposed to be fun! Don't let it be frustrating.

Not completely unrelated to this, when I'm learning a new tune on sax that is tough, I'll start at the end of a phrase, learn the last bar, then add the second last bar, then the third last bar and so on. So I'm always playing the bar I learned as well as the new one - hope that makes sense.

[Glennwillow]

When do you move on...

I think this is an excellent question.

Over the years I have found that my key to advancement is working on songs that are within my grasp. Then I actually have hope of learning the song or piece. By doing that I developed my facilities and coordination on the guitar a little at a time. That allowed me to start working on more difficult pieces as my physical abilities and understanding improved.

I can see why you would have trouble learning to play a James Taylor piece. He does rhythmic things that are quite difficult. I play a lot of James Taylor songs, but in some cases I know I have not duplicated his playing approach. I comfort myself by assuming that he couldn't play exactly like me, either. (Would he actually want to??? )

I have started off on a piece I really wanted to learn and then after a while, abandoned it. I just found that it was too far beyond where I was as a player. I have come back to some of those songs or pieces in more recent years and now found that I understood them better and was able to learn them and they weren't quite so difficult to learn this time. So, I suppose without my knowing it, I have advanced and improved in some ways over the many years (58) that I have been playing.

It's a long path to developing competency on any instrument, and for more advanced playing, the guitar is not easy. I have some competency on the guitar, and I'm very grateful for that, but I suppose I could have been better if I hadn't needed to make a living and raise a family.

Best of luck David!

- Glenn

[Deliberate1]

Great advice, guys. For me, the only thing harder than learning a piece that seems beyond my grasp, is giving up on it. I like the "back burner" mindset much better - even if it turns out to be the same thing.
Thanks again, boys, for the help.
David

[tbeltrans]

When I played full time in a trio in supper clubs, resorts, etc., we went through a lot of tunes to find those which "worked" for us. A tune worked for us if it came together quickly, sounded reasonable, and fit our instrumentation.

When doing it full time professionally, you have to produce quickly, just as one must do on any other job.

However, as a hobby, we have the luxury of taking our time and enjoying the process. We can set a tune aside and come back to it later. Other than the pressure we may choose put on ourselves, building a repertoire for performance becomes less a priority than enjoying the process of playing.

So, in my experience, when to move on is really up to what you want to do at that point in time as a hobbyist.

Tony

[TBman]

In my signature is a tune from my soundcloud page, An Daingean. It took me a couple of months to wrap my head around what was going on and then all of a sudden it fell into place.

Sometimes, for whatever reason, when I start to learn something new ir seems as though I barely know how to play a guitar. When that happens I will learn just the main melody notes. I'll do that for a couple/few measures then go back and add the other notes. And then again, triggered by something I can't identify, all the lights come on and the tune falls into place.

When we are learning a new tune, we're not just learning a tune, we're learning to play like someone else. Sometimes that's not so easy. We are all wired differently and what is automatic for one, it may not be for someone else.

If I'm noodling, I may make key signature mistakes, but not playing mistakes because I'm just being me. Being me is easy, being James Taylor, is not, except for James Taylor.

[cliff_the_stiff]

usually if I am hitting a wall, I’ll shift my practice to some parts of the song that gives me trouble- Isolate those changes and practice them- I’ll practice other songs and in a few weeks I’ll come back to the challenging piece with better results.

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by cliff_the_stiff

usually if I am hitting a wall, I’ll shift my practice to some parts of the song that gives me trouble- Isolate those changes and practice them- I’ll practice other songs and in a few weeks I’ll come back to the challenging piece with better results.

OP here. I tend to do the same. I have become rather used to the epiphany that happens when I drill down on a tune, without much progress, only to come back sometime later and have it fall into place.
I saw Tommy Emmanuel two weeks ago. He talked about his process for approaching a new tune. He said you should play that tune and only that tune until you have it down. Frankly, I'd go nuts. But, then, I'm not Tommy.
David

[Deliberate1]

...then when common sense dictates that you move on, it clicks, and those two measures that had you convinced to move on are now yours. And then on to the next mountain.
David

[Bob from Brooklyn]

I've been in a James Taylor rabbit hole lately myself. Some of the intros and fills can be quite challenging and the effortless way James himself pulls them off is jaw-dropping. I've been playing Fire and Rain for a couple years and am still constantly tweaking the way I play the intro. It is ok to leave and revisit songs.

One particular thing about James is how he forms some of his chords. To me he plays his A & D chords 'upside down'. This makes it difficult to get an exact reproduction. I negotiate some of his passages to the best of my abilities to get an 'approximation' of the parts. In the long run playing and singing his songs are fun and rewarding.

Keep playing.

[reeve21]

David,

I have struggled with this.

I beat my head against the wall trying to play piano ragtime tunes for a couple of months.

I decided it was time to move on when I realized I was not having fun. As a hobbyist I play only for my own enjoyment, so that is the criteria.

I agree with others that moving on does not imply giving up. I found some less demanding ragtime tunes (Richard Saslow's originals written for guitar) which I can play, and plan on returning to the Joplin style stuff some day when my skills have progressed.

I think JT is a pretty heavy lift for someone a few years in. Nothing wrong with trying, but sometimes it is best to go around rather than through a brick wall

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by Bob from Brooklyn

I've been in a James Taylor rabbit hole lately myself. Some of the intros and fills can be quite challenging and the effortless way James himself pulls them off is jaw-dropping...
One particular thing about James is how he forms some of his chords. To me he plays his A & D chords 'upside down'. This makes it difficult to get an exact reproduction...In the long run playing and singing his songs are fun and rewarding.

OP here. Bob, I agree on all counts. I am familiar with JT's unique fingering for the A and D which, I believe, he says makes some transitions more natural for him. I suspect that is just the way he learned them, and saw no reason to change - no Internet back in the late 60's.

Something in the Way She Moves is the song I am working on - my first JT tune. It is in connection with a five week song camp I am doing with Jeffrey Pepper Rogers, who has done a terriffic job charting it out, with both tab and musical notation. As a jazz woodwinds player all my life, I read music, though not yet for the guitar. But to have the time stucture (irrespective of the notes) is very helpful, with the tabs providing the fingering. And I also have JPR's excellent video presentation. So, I have as many learning aids (ie: crutches) as I could hope for.

For those of you who have played guitar all your life, I hope you still have the same experience I do when I am able to stitch together a few notes of a precious song that I have lived with forever, but never had the opportunity to reproduce. When I finally got down the intro to Something, it was an extraordinary moment. For the first time, I was bringing to life the sound of a song that I have known and loved for more than half a century. That is as powerful a motivation to trudge on as I can imagine.
David

[Bob from Brooklyn]

Good stuff David! Keep plugging along.