Where Did All The Workers Go?

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

TBH I also generally have a negative reaction to "kids these days" threads/posts, which a lot of posts in this thread feel like. I think it's too easy a default POV to think that the generation coming up is somehow flawed because they don't do it the way we did. It's a different time with different needs, pressures, technology, etc. Personally I think these kids are great. Way less drug use and clowning that we did, great work ethic, super smart. They have some challenges as well, we all did.

I agree Dirk. It’s another example of a rather critical and negativistic generalization that is rooted in only a handful of data points. I don’t see such posts benefitting anyone except that it provides an opportunity for the writer of such a post to discharge some personal discomfort.

[fazool]

so, on this topic I can actually give a "front line" opinion.

I served on a regional workforce development committee for our part of the state and I guest lecture on career development.

My company has 110 active open positions we cant fill (In an 800-employee location). Our turnover is about 18%


All the manufacturers and restaurants around town talk to each other and all have the same issue - they can't hire enough workers.

We have more sales than we can ship. When a company collapses or loses money its usually due to lack of sales. No one seems to have that problem today. Quite the opposite.

The "American Dream" is dead and gone.

It used to be that people would finish high school, some would come back from the war and you could go work in the local factory or labor job. You would make enough money to support a family, raise some kids, get a house in the suburbs and own a car and even a few vacations.

Not any more......

No starting employee at any job in any factory, labor job, service industry or anything can "live the American dream". They simply can't.

I'll stop there.......

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by fazool

so, on this topic I can actually give a "front line" opinion.

I served on a regional workforce development committee for our part of the state and I guest lecture on career development.

My company has 110 active open positions we cant fill (In an 800-employee location). Our turnover is about 18%


All the manufacturers and restaurants around town talk to each other and all have the same issue - they can't hire enough workers.

We have more sales than we can ship. When a company collapses or loses money its usually due to lack of sales. No one seems to have that problem today. Quite the opposite.

The "American Dream" is dead and gone.

It used to be that people would finish high school, some would come back from the war and you could go work in the local factory or labor job. You would make enough money to support a family, raise some kids, get a house in the suburbs and own a car and even a few vacations.

Not any more......

No starting employee at any job in any factory, labor job, service industry or anything can "live the American dream". They simply can't.

I'll stop there.......

It's fair to say the American Dream has changed but it is not gone.

It seems highly unlikely the US will get back to a likely unique time when the advantage of lots of resources let a lot of lower skilled people be an exception.

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

TBH I also generally have a negative reaction to "kids these days" threads/posts, which a lot of posts in this thread feel like. I think it's too easy a default POV to think that the generation coming up is somehow flawed because they don't do it the way we did. It's a different time with different needs, pressures, technology, etc. Personally I think these kids are great. Way less drug use and clowning that we did, great work ethic, super smart. They have some challenges as well, we all did.

Agreed 100% with this. Others need to remember: there was a time that we were that younger generation. Circumstances change with the times. My oldest doesn't work a part-time job b/c her school schedule is very demanding, and she volunteers at the library and local animal shelter, so she's contributing and getting "work" experience without a paid job.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

It might be different just due to particular school districts, I don't know. My oldest has a part time job as well, my youngest is too young still but she's got one lined up already. But it's hard to do all of that, and it wouldn't surprise me if the numbers were down from previous generations just due to increased workload.

TBH I also generally have a negative reaction to "kids these days" threads/posts, which a lot of posts in this thread feel like. I think it's too easy a default POV to think that the generation coming up is somehow flawed because they don't do it the way we did. It's a different time with different needs, pressures, technology, etc. Personally I think these kids are great. Way less drug use and clowning that we did, great work ethic, super smart. They have some challenges as well, we all did.

When this subject of "kids these days" comes up, I am reminded of the interns who work at the company I did contract engineering at until COVID interruptus. They were much more mature and aware than I and those I hung out with were at their age.

Since I don't have kids, I don't know if what I experienced was typically representative, but I certainly hope so. It seems to me that human nature is basically the same as it always was unless there is some scientific/medical reason that it has changed somewhere along the way. We have the "good" and the "bad" in each of us and we each individually decide which we will yield to as folks have always done throughout history.

As far as the "kids these days...", I do have fun with that and the "get off my lawn". My wife and I say these things to each other all the time in jest.

Tony

[H165]

Where I live, many people eligible to work on the low end of the pay scale realized that the combined federal taxpayer-funded COVID assistance checks, state taxpayer-funded COVID assistance checks, and huge taxpayer-funded unemployment payment adjustments, easily added up to more than they could earn while working.

They have stayed out of the workforce as long as possible, and many are now well aware of how to drastically cut expenses and avoid going back in.

I have two nephews around 40 years old, both gainfully employed. Listening to their tales of work is like hearing a wild-west radio talk show. One is a startup marketing specialist who is "recruited" on a weekly basis. The other is a public middle school teacher. Both are putting in long hours and wondering what will happen next. My family (not including me) have been educators for nearly 100 years now. Nothing in their past has prepared anyone for the crazy conditions in which my nephew now works daily. The problems coming through Tik Tok, combined with parent expectations and the appearance of the-subject-which-must-not-be-named in school administrations has just about taken the impetus out of every teacher's commitment to providing a good education. They're too busy fighting the crazies, or planning their move to another sector, or just plain retiring.

[imwjl]

The pandemic benefits were over at the end of last summer. It's too long past that to blame current challenges on it.

[J Patrick]

Originally Posted by H165

Where I live, many people eligible to work on the low end of the pay scale realized that the combined federal taxpayer-funded COVID assistance checks, state taxpayer-funded COVID assistance checks, and huge taxpayer-funded unemployment payment adjustments, easily added up to more than they could earn while working.

They have stayed out of the workforce as long as possible, and many are now well aware of how to drastically cut expenses and avoid going back in.

I have two nephews around 40 years old, both gainfully employed. Listening to their tales of work is like hearing a wild-west radio talk show. One is a startup marketing specialist who is "recruited" on a weekly basis. The other is a public middle school teacher. Both are putting in long hours and wondering what will happen next. My family (not including me) have been educators for nearly 100 years now. Nothing in their past has prepared anyone for the crazy conditions in which my nephew now works daily. The problems coming through Tik Tok, combined with parent expectations and the appearance of the-subject-which-must-not-be-named in school administrations has just about taken the impetus out of every teacher's commitment to providing a good education. They're too busy fighting the crazies, or planning their move to another sector, or just plain retiring.

…..not all schools teachers students or parents are the same….and there are glaring regional and district differences all of which can make for drastically different educational experiences….that said….teaching will always be an extremely tough job and needs to be a calling for those who do it to like doing it…

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by imwjl

The pandemic benefits were over at the end of last summer. It's too long past that to blame current challenges on it.

Definitely.

And, even when all that assistance was available, there were still other factors at play, such as suppressed immigration, and changing calculations of what one needed to make a particular job lucrative, or even worthwhile (if you have a health condition that put you at a 5% chance of death if you contracted COVID when the viral strains were more deadly and there were no vaccines, why would you work at a grocery store for $14 - $17 an hour; and once having found a way to live without that income, what would it take today to lure you back?)

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

Definitely.

And, even when all that assistance was available, there were still other factors at play, such as suppressed immigration, and changing calculations of what one needed to make a particular job lucrative, or even worthwhile (if you have a health condition that put you at a 5% chance of death if you contracted COVID when the viral strains were more deadly and there were no vaccines, why would you work at a grocery store for $14 - $17 an hour; and once having found a way to live without that income, what would it take today to lure you back?)

Our small chain probably faired well from wages increases we were already at and the special nature of our president. He lost his wife in a tragedy and hundreds of first line workers were his precious people to protect. We were leaders in physical protection and he would be all over moderating behavior and watchful.

We have two in HR now who lost jobs in that time. They get really frustrated when people criticize what was a lifeline and helped them get back into the workplace ASAP. Having been hurt and in it and then in HR they firmly believe stories of abuse are exaggerated.

I'm thankful myself and still tired - this far in still haven't been sick, still working very unusual hours whether to aid my safety or deal with our staff shortages.

[s2y]

I work in the hospital setting and it's very difficult to get and retain workers. My department paid a lot of money for 2 new techs. Despite having experience and good references, both were ultimately fired for poor attendance. We've had a good amount of techs quit without another job lined up.

[rokdog49]

Having read through this thread, maybe a better title to my OP would have been
“Why are there not enough workers”
BTW folks, singling out the lack of available workers in low-paying jobs is
a bit deceiving. At the risk of being repetitive, there is a lack of workers in nearly every segment today. A jobs report issued just 30 days ago stated that there were 11 million unfulfilled openings in the United States. Within the scope of that number are openings in management, health care, technology, the trades and more, none of which are considered low-paying jobs.
BTW, there are concurrent extended benefits at both the Federal and State levels for those who are unemployed. That is factual and can be verified if you want to look it up.
It’s not the only factor, but it is a factor.
Until and unless people have to return to working to exist, I don’t see this changing anytime soon.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Having read through this thread, maybe a better title to my OP would have been
“Why are there not enough workers”
BTW folks, singling out the lack of available workers in low-paying jobs is
a bit deceiving. At the risk of being repetitive, there is a lack of workers in nearly every segment today. A jobs report issued just 30 days ago stated that there were 11 million unfulfilled openings in the United States. Within the scope of that number are openings in management, health care, technology, the trades and more, none of which are considered low-paying jobs.
BTW, there are concurrent extended benefits at both the Federal and State levels for those who are unemployed. That is factual and can be verified if you want to look it up.
It’s not the only factor, but it is a factor.
Until and unless people have to return to working to exist, I don’t see this changing anytime soon.

Our 3 kids were born in a few years pop in birth rate. My wife the teacher just said the past two year-end felt promising in terms of good kids graduating from high school. Where I work has some in part time and entry level jobs. Some are already graduating from college. That group has me hopeful.

The hopeful part in that group of kids is two-fold. They seem to hold a lot of good attitude and skills.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by imwjl

The hopeful part in that group of kids is two-fold. They seem to hold a lot of good attitude and skills.

Good for you (and your country). It's not at all what I hear from teachers here (including my partner who teaches at a collège, i.e. kids up to 15 or so). Most of them do seem to be interested (which couldn't be said for many of my own classmates) but (highly) incapable with ditto parents. Years of downgrading the final exam requirements to ensure a certain minimum percentage of passing candidates is taking its tools. And don't get her started on the general education of kids from parents who at best dispensed their education through the answering machine.
There's a reason she requested her permanent position to be at a rural school about as far as possible from the Paris region in her academy ... at least most pupils in her school are basically nice rather than future career criminals (her words, freely translated).

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by imwjl

Our 3 kids were born in a few years pop in birth rate. My wife the teacher just said the past two year-end felt promising in terms of good kids graduating from high school. Where I work has some in part time and entry level jobs. Some are already graduating from college. That group has me hopeful.

The hopeful part in that group of kids is two-fold. They seem to hold a lot of good attitude and skills.

My grandson has one more year toward a degree in engineering.
I told him the “world is his oyster.”
Seriously, he doesn’t pay any attention to the news media, has a great attitude and has been working part time throughout his schooling to earn money and contributing toward his college costs.
He’s a pretty happy young man.