Ultratonic K&K Conversion - review and recommendations

[fazool]

Originally Posted by varmonter

I've pretty much given up on piezo pickups for live performance.
I've about 20 yrs or so of tweaking
And de-quacking all sorts of vibration
Sensing pickups. None of which satisfied me when played at volume.
That said I'm certainly glad you
like what you've installed and I hope
you get many years of service from it.
I think james is a brilliant designer .
I remember his first rendition of this required a single use vibration generator that helped
determine the feedback frequency. This turnedme off to the purchase . At the time it was
an 80 dollar item that you only used once.
Hopefully this is no longer the case.

UST's are typically the piezo format that creates the famous "piezo quack". SBT's are not prone to this but the trade-off is that they are more prone to feedback.

No his system uses a piezo SBT wired in reverse polarity to counter the extreme feedback vibrations

[darkwave]

Hello all, I have been intrigued by the Ultra-Tonic upgrade for a while now. I have one guitar with a K&K, but it is an archtop with the twin head sensor system (so a slightly different starting configuration).

I get the basic operation of what this system is providing, but am wondering if a carefully set up parametric EQ does the same thing? I'm assuming the negative polarity sensor is passively EQ'd to the depth and Q needed to counteract feedback by the circuit, which implies to me that a simple notch filter would give pretty much the same result (excluding the impact of the additional high-E-string sensor)?

If I'm right, that means I can get the same benefit in sound for my archtop conceding that the Ultra-Tonic has additional benefit of being both passive and plug & play. Am I right here, or is the cancellation effect of the negative polarity sensor more dynamic/responsive than that?

- Douglas C.

[James May]

Originally Posted by darkwave

Hello all, I have been intrigued by the Ultra-Tonic upgrade for a while now. I have one guitar with a K&K, but it is an archtop with the twin head sensor system (so a slightly different starting configuration)...

The twin head version will work with the Ultra Tonic conversion kit as well.

Originally Posted by darkwave

...
I get the basic operation of what this system is providing, but am wondering if a carefully set up parametric EQ does the same thing? I'm assuming the negative polarity sensor is passively EQ'd to the depth and Q needed to counteract feedback by the circuit, which implies to me that a simple notch filter would give pretty much the same result (excluding the impact of the additional high-E-string sensor)? ....

You can't achieve the same thing with a parametric EQ. The feedback sensor is out of phase with the main sensors. It picks up a somewhat complex set of top plate resonances and not much string. The main sensors pick up the same set of resonances as well as strong string signals. By adding just the right amount of the feeback sensor to the main sensor, you can dial in how much of the resonances you want to cancel out, regardless of where they are in frequency. So, when you set the dip switch, you are setting a mix balance, not tuning a frequency to be notched.

Originally Posted by darkwave

...Am I right here, or is the cancellation effect of the negative polarity sensor more dynamic/responsive than that?

- Douglas C.

As above, it's more complicated and hence you could certainly say more responsive to what you want to hear.

[darkwave]

Thanks for the quick and direct reply! Your comment differentiating top resonance from the more direct string sensing makes it clearer to me.

I don't plug this guitar in often, but when I did the feedback was very tough to deal with (it was actually feeding back to an over loud electric bass player - so I had no hope of controlling it!).

Looking at your archtop install thread (mine is an Eastman as well - 810CE-7) it seems the additional small piezo disc is not used? I'm not looking to blend in my case - I removed the magnetic pickup entirely.

-Douglas C.

[James May]

Originally Posted by darkwave

...

Looking at your archtop install thread (mine is an Eastman as well - 810CE-7) it seems the additional small piezo disc is not used? I'm not looking to blend in my case - I removed the magnetic pickup entirely.

-Douglas C.

I somehow didn't catch that you were looking to put the Ultra Tonic conversion in an archtop. Glad you saw my thread on the archtop install.

If you already have the K&K in there, then I guess it is a two disc install with one under or close to the bridge feet location. If so, then the conversion kit would not require the extra small disc to strengthen the high E. It could simply be removed (by me or you). You could mount the included volume control under the pick guard with no issues.

Probably best to email me if you have more specific questions and I'll be glad to help.

[darkwave]

I'll have to take you up on that! For now though, there's a couple other guitar projects in the cue ahead of this one, so I'll have to bother you later. Thanks so much for the helpful replies as I mull this over.

-Douglas C.

[rschultz]

I’ve had a K&K installed in one of my guitars for 10 years. Glued. Tried many, many different dual source combos to help it sound better. It’s muddy and weak in the trebles. Mags and mics help the trebles but it still takes a lot of EQ to tame the muddiness.

So I tried the Ultra Tonic conversion kit. The dip switches were interesting. Sure the bass gets less as you move down the switches… but it also tones down the rather shrill trebles. That’s right, it took my dull sounding guitar and made it very bright. So somewhere around 9-10 the trebles sounded nice and the bass wasn’t cut too much. The instructions say something like higher numbers give more bass and more top responsiveness (I read bass and treble).

For me, I bought it for the extra treble sensor, not necessarily the feedback suppression… although that probably is helping clean up the mud.

I’m playing it this Sunday at church in a band environment, we’ll see how that goes.

[fwphoto]

Originally Posted by rschultz

I’m playing it this Sunday at church in a band environment, we’ll see how that goes.

So, how did it go?

I play in a large praise band & used a Ultra Tonic/K&K conversion in an OM-21 'till I had an OEM Ultra Tonic installed in my old D-18. The Ultra Tonic has been really great in that loud band environment & sounds terrific without even a hint of feedback.

I have found that setting the DIP switch at around 4 hits the sweet spot in my Martins. That has given me the best sound quality along with 100% feedback elimination.

Take care,

Frank

[rschultz]

I played the K&K + UltraTonic Conversion kit twice now at church. Not bad... actually pretty good. I play through a Line6 Stomp. It's a pretty basic setup, just a little warm reverb. Not much if any EQ required. Single 1/4" cable, no more dual source setup hassle.

It definitely adds just enough high end to make it sound natural, and removing some of the midrange mud probably helps in that area too. First time in many years that guitar has had just the K&K output. I think I'm happy with it, I don't think it needs anything else. I may tweak some of the gain or EQ over time, but it is a very usable sound. Strumming, fingerpicking, it all sounded good.

[fwphoto]

Originally Posted by rschultz

I played the K&K + UltraTonic Conversion kit twice now at church. Not bad... actually pretty good . . .

Nice. I've been very happy with my Ultra Tonic in a D-18, especially in a large, loud praise band setting. The overall sound is very balanced string-to-string & it cuts well for the basic rhythm/fingerstyle I play. That plus ZERO FEEDBACK! What's not to love! :-)

Take care,

Frank