The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Build and Repair

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-09-2014, 09:48 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,693
Default "Words Mean What I Want Them to Mean"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQZLEzRtKQg

I don't seem to be able to get the embedded Youtube functionality to work.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-09-2014, 09:58 AM
mc1 mc1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: nova scotia
Posts: 12,897
Default

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-09-2014, 10:06 AM
gpj1136 gpj1136 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 93
Default

Did he cut that top out with a drill? I've not seen scalloped edges like that before.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-09-2014, 10:11 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpj1136 View Post
Did he cut that top out with a drill? I've not seen scalloped edges like that before.
Comments accompanying the video on Youtube state that he used a laser cutter with "vector graphics". He said it was a failed experiment in which he attempted to "key" the top to sides. He found, he said, that the small segments broke off.

I appreciate his attempts at doing something different, but am trying to keep my comments "polite".
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-09-2014, 10:13 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,693
Default

Thanks mc1, I now see how it works. Just the end part, not the whole URL.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-09-2014, 10:20 AM
mc1 mc1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: nova scotia
Posts: 12,897
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
Comments accompanying the video on Youtube state that he used a laser cutter with "vector graphics". He said it was a failed experiment in which he attempted to "key" the top to sides. He found, he said, that the small segments broke off.

I appreciate his attempts at doing something different, but am trying to keep my comments "polite".
"dovetail" binding! i take it you are bothered by the use of the word "parabolic"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
Thanks mc1, I now see how it works. Just the end part, not the whole URL.
you got it.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-09-2014, 10:56 AM
gpj1136 gpj1136 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 93
Default

It's a bit funny because when you do a search on parabolic bracing. You get forum posts where they start out with someone in a way bragging that they only build using parabolic bracing, and then someone else corrects them. With the original question not fully answered, But I guess there wouldn't be a correct answer anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-09-2014, 11:07 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mc1 View Post
i take it you are bothered by the use of the word "parabolic"?
That is one issue, yes. There is nothing "parabolic" about the longitudinal shape or the cross-sectional profile.

The comments adjoining the video, made by the author, state a bunch of things that can only be described as "mis-informed".

I guess I'm late to the "parabolic bracing" picnic, so to speak. Here is what Scott van Linge has to say on the subject, http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/...1350923-/page2 (note that the websites listed below no longer work.)


Quote:
I may be partly responsible for introducing ''parabolic'' to the consciousness of the guitar world when I founded Parabolic Brace Works in 1996, a business in which I reshape existing braces to maximize a guitar's potential. I shape braces in length and cross section in approximately parabolic curves, although I do not follow a strict formula. This allows the energy from the strings to flow through the braces to the soundboard in a streamlined manner, while reducing unnecessary mass (i.e., not needed to balance string tension). Corners, ridges, peaks (as left by scalloped bracing) all absorb energy before it can make sound. Scalloped braces are not parabolic, and I feel are a cheap fix to loosen up the top, which can cause failure, although they do allow for better sound than even-height braces used by Martin in the 50's-70's. Larrivee shapes their top braces parabolically lengthwise, but leaves them square cut in cross section, which leaves corners the entire length.

If you ever get a chance to look into a vintage Martin, you will see parabolically shaped back braces, both lengthwise and in cross section. I have seen variations on top braces that were not completely scalloped, and the short side braces were parabolic back then. Another term used for lengthwise shaping is ''tapered'', which also describes a gradual lowering in height as the brace ends. This allows the strength and mass to be reduced as the braces move away from the string tension area under the bridge, much as it takes less force to balance a teetertotter further out from the fulcrum. I have gone into detailed discussion and posted pictures on my web site, vanlingeguitars.com. parabolicbraceworks.com will get you there, too.

Last edited by charles Tauber; 04-09-2014 at 11:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-09-2014, 11:22 AM
gpj1136 gpj1136 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 93
Unhappy

I took a read through the comments, and it left me feeling sad that his heel less design was a failure.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-09-2014, 11:28 AM
mc1 mc1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: nova scotia
Posts: 12,897
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
That is one issue, yes. There is nothing "parabolic" about the longitudinal shape or the cross-sectional profile.

The comments adjoining the video, made by the author, state a bunch of things that can only be described as "mis-informed".
ah, i didn't see those because i watched the embedded video. so it's a good thing you gave the full link.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-09-2014, 11:51 AM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Earthly Paradise of Northern California
Posts: 6,440
Default

It's hyperbole.
__________________
"Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest."
--Paul Simon
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-09-2014, 12:22 PM
mc1 mc1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: nova scotia
Posts: 12,897
Default

hyperbolic parabola!

here is a hyperbolic parabaloid. i wonder if anyone has made braces like this?

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-09-2014, 01:15 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Klepper View Post
It's hyperbole.
Indeed it is.


Quote:
...hyperbole is a figure of speech in which statements are exaggerated to create an impact and are not supposed to be interpreted literally... although valued in creative writing, hyperboles are avoided in formal writing or business writing.

Read more at Buzzle: http://www.buzzle.com/articles/examp...yperboles.html
I find it irksome when folks use "creative writing" as a means to technically distinguish what they do from what others do. To paraphrase, "He would have had me at "curved"." In this context, the term parabolic is "creative writing" intended to obfuscate and, perhaps, con.


It's a parabolic hyperbole, not to be confused with hyperbolic parabola.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-09-2014, 03:58 PM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,621
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Klepper View Post
It's hyperbole.
very punny!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-09-2014, 07:19 PM
Cambrian Guitars Cambrian Guitars is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Los Altos, CA
Posts: 12
Default Ha-ha...THAT old video!!

Suffice to say I don't do my bracing like that any more!
I should take that old video down....it's embarrassing!
As the discussion in the video's comment section says, I agree that there's nothing parabolic about any of the curves....perhaps they should be called parabollocks curves? I got "caught up" in the marketing hyperbole, sorry.

My "internal heel" idea is still alive (just) and I may revisit the idea later this year. I have continued to do experiments of all kinds with new materials and building techniques. Looking for my niche in the market I guess....

E.g. my all-spruce triple-top with strat-like arm relief curve experiments seems to be working out - I have a couple more experimental guitars in the pipeline with improvements (thanks to some useful suggestions from other builders and players) - stay tuned.

Cheers,
Dave Fifield
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Build and Repair

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=