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  #16  
Old 11-10-2019, 08:54 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTexan View Post
...I say "I could had a V8 but I decided to spend money on guitars instead of gasoline."

:-)
My wife considered a hybrid for the power but now a Toyota minivan is 292 HP. She got the lowered with some performance parts SE (swagger wagon) which has been much nicer. Our strategy will be the minivan as long range vehicle and a BEV to replace my station wagon.

A friend who got a Model 3 instead of a nicely done Accord or Camry showed me his spreadsheet calculating similar cost of ownership over time. Months into owning the Model 3 he says do it just because you always leave home with a full tank. He said his longer road trips are working out better than expected but they also have his wife's car for when charging could be an issue.

This won't work for instant gratification but the BEV equivalent of the VW Golf just started coming off the assembly line on east side of the Atlantic and it's supposed to be made in Chattanooga next. I believe unveiled to the US in February.

No matter what I suggest you have a new vehicle with AEB and adaptive cruise.

There are a lot of good choices out there now but I predict we have a much different buying world in two years. I believe 2022 is the auto industry's self-imposed all cars to have AEB and new BEVs will be shipping soon.
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  #17  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:28 AM
Kerbie Kerbie is offline
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Thanks for a bunch of interesting answers, guys.

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Originally Posted by Merak View Post
AC power is created by the motor driven alternator then converted to DC, the DC is turned back to high frequency AC by the controller which optimizes the waveform for best performance.
So, the "controller" functions as an inverter? If the controller optimizes performance, it does so by choosing exactly when to change the waveform?

Rodger, I looked at the HRV and even drove it. I liked it, but I'll probably end up with a Toyota. I think the first hybrid that attracted me was the Highlander which I believe was the first SUV hybrid Toyota made. At least, it was the first one I remember. I'm amazed that the Highlander, like all of them, just gets bigger and bigger.

I know batteries can be costly. My brother has an electric vehicle and his battery failed. Fortunately, it was still under warranty, so it didn't cost him a dime. But their replacement does eat away at the gas savings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Spivey View Post
Kerbie, please consider that if you get a hybrid car, one day, you may smack yourself on the forehead and say "I could have had a V8." That's all I've got.
I hear ya! My dad would have agreed with you! I never owned a V8. My current one is a V6. That's as close as I can come.

At one dealership, I've been referred to their lead service guy. It's amazing how many blank stares I've gotten when I've asked about how the engine and motor work together, even from guys who have sold cars for 20 years.
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  #18  
Old 11-10-2019, 10:02 AM
Dr. Spivey Dr. Spivey is online now
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OK, the whole V8 thing was a joking reference to the ancient V8 juice commercials. I guess nobody else remembers.
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  #19  
Old 11-10-2019, 10:35 AM
VTexan VTexan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Spivey View Post
OK, the whole V8 thing was a joking reference to the ancient V8 juice commercials. I guess nobody else remembers.
I remember it well. https://youtu.be/ld8eAH0MW00
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  #20  
Old 11-10-2019, 10:42 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Spivey View Post
OK, the whole V8 thing was a joking reference to the ancient V8 juice commercials. I guess nobody else remembers.
Unfortunately, I am old enough to remember those commercials.

Regarding these hybrids, I don’t consider them a good investment unless you live in a large city and drive in it all the time.
A base model Honda Civic LX Coupe is rated at 37 highway 32 city and according to those who own them, gets over 40 mpg straight highway. At 40 mpg and no batteries, I’ll choose the Civic over a Prius all day long.

Heck, my Kia Optima mid-sized sedan averages between 31-32 mpg and my city/highway driving is about 50-50.

Truth is, unless gasoline goes into the $4/gallon or higher range, I’ll keep driving my two completely paid for vehicles without much concern. YMMV (pun intended)
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  #21  
Old 11-10-2019, 10:51 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Spivey View Post
OK, the whole V8 thing was a joking reference to the ancient V8 juice commercials. I guess nobody else remembers.
I do remember and have had: '67 T-bird, some V8 pickup trucks and two Mustang GTs. My kids and I found a car comparison site that was a hoot to see how modern vehicles compare t ones we grew up with.

It was fun to think of the big Buick wagon we had growing up when we did a big road trip with our kids. Today's vehicles are tremendous compared to state of the art in the earlier time.
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  #22  
Old 11-10-2019, 11:29 AM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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We are actually the perfect candidates for an EV since 90% of our trips are local and less than 25 miles total. But I still want the industry to mature a bit more before leaping in. The car we just bought (very likely our last given our age) was 100% conventional combustion, but state of the art otherwise. We really wanted AWD so that limited our options a bit. On a recent highway trip we got 34 mpg driving on interstate highways up to 80 mph posted speed limit and through mountains. Now that it is cold here, city mileage is about 24-25 for most short trips / cold engine, and ~30 mpg once the engine is warm.

Most hybrids run on the battery mostly, using a small gas engine to recharge the batteries when necessary. Some use gas primarily plus electric to boost performance when called for. It depends on the make and model.
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  #23  
Old 11-10-2019, 11:37 AM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Originally Posted by rokdog49 View Post
The same thing can be said for Honda’s. When I was on the road extensively, I drove Accords, five of them. Never drove one less than 130,000 miles. Never put a dime in any one except normal maintenance.
I have heard that from a number of Honda owners too. If I were to replace my car (if it ever dies...) the replacement would be either a Honda or a Toyota.

So in regards to the main aspect of this thread...

How are the batteries of these hybrid and electric cars disposed of? Will we see some sort of environmental crisis as all these batteries come to needing to be replaced and disposed of?

Tony
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  #24  
Old 11-10-2019, 01:16 PM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeltrans View Post
I have heard that from a number of Honda owners too. If I were to replace my car (if it ever dies...) the replacement would be either a Honda or a Toyota.

So in regards to the main aspect of this thread...

How are the batteries of these hybrid and electric cars disposed of? Will we see some sort of environmental crisis as all these batteries come to needing to be replaced and disposed of?

Tony
We have a third/kids car 20 year old Camry I trust more than some new cars I've owned. My cousin's Accord was nearing 300,000 miles when her kid had it at college and it was totaled while parked on the street. At times I think most of the auto industry marketing and sales efforts are just overcoming the good and the value with the classic Honda & Toyota sedans.

Edit: There are articles that will explain the battery life cycle and recycling better than I can here.
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  #25  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:53 PM
Kerbie Kerbie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Spivey View Post
OK, the whole V8 thing was a joking reference to the ancient V8 juice commercials. I guess nobody else remembers.
Oh yeah, I remember those commercials. I got it... and thought it was funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
Most hybrids run on the battery mostly, using a small gas engine to recharge the batteries when necessary. Some use gas primarily plus electric to boost performance when called for. It depends on the make and model.
Yeah, they vary a lot. The one I've looked at the most seems to start with the electrical motor unless the accelerator is pushed hard enough to exceed its capacity. Otherwise, as the speed increases, there is a little less electrical and more gas. As soon as the car senses any coasting or backing off the accelerator, it'll bring back in the electric motor. That's why the city mpg exceeds highway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeltrans View Post
How are the batteries of these hybrid and electric cars disposed of? Will we see some sort of environmental crisis as all these batteries come to needing to be replaced and disposed of?
I don't know, Tony. I would assume the dealerships will follow the current laws that cover disposal of batteries. I guess hybrids just make for more of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imwjl View Post
There are articles that will explain the battery life cycle and recycling better than I can here.
Yep, that's what I've been looking for. Thanks, guys!
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  #26  
Old 11-10-2019, 11:14 PM
Birdbrain Birdbrain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB'sox View Post
Yes, most all work differently based on manufacturers. It is true that the mileage is better in stop and go or slow traffic as most of the hybrids are set up to run on battery only in those situations so you are using no gas at all. I currently have a hybrid that runs on battery only until it is depleted and then switches to gas while at the same time recharging the battery with regenerative braking, coasting, and also a dedicated generator so it can be quite functional again during the same drive. Mine has a button to push that takes the battery completely out of the loop as well so that it is only being charged. For every 3-4 miles I drive, I get a mile of electric only built back up.
That sounds a lot like my Ford C-Max Energi... is it?
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  #27  
Old 11-10-2019, 11:39 PM
Birdbrain Birdbrain is offline
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My family fleet has been all-hybrid for two years and 50,000 miles, so I have some experience, all positive. Our 2014 Ford C-Max Hybrid gets a respectable 38 mpg in mostly urban commuting. My 2017 C-Max Energi has an oversized battery that plugs in to your house 110V tap to store about 20 miles of EV range in its battery. That makes all most local trips gas-free EV trips, but it also can be driven between 600-mile refuelings, so there's no operational compromises. This Energi model has given me 78 mpg so far.

Ford's hybrid's work just like the Prius, but with Ford's own hardware. The difference is better power (185-195 combined HP and a 8-sec. 0-60 time), a smoother and quieter ride (it's a 3200-3800 lb car) and better handling (I traded a GTI, and I don't miss it much). The Ford also has huge windows and headroom, and a more traditional dash interface of buttons and knobs. It's rarely necessary to use the touchscreen, and, most important to me, you can turn the whole distracting screen off.

Ford also makes Fusion sedans in this drivetrain, but I don't think they're as useful, with less cargo room for your gigs. But better things are coming- the next Escape compact SUV will have hybrid options.

New C-Maxes are almost gone. They've been discontinued, but new cars like this can be a better value than used ones. My car, loaded with options, listed around $36K. Ford's end of year discounts cut that to $30k, but Colorado's tax breaks for plug-in hybrids combined to federal credits to save a tidy $9007 from our tax bill. Check your own state for deals.

I'm genuinely interested in lowering my carbon footprint, but I'm also happy that when I drive my car from breakfast to noon, I save enough gas money to buy lunch!
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Last edited by Birdbrain; 11-10-2019 at 11:44 PM. Reason: one more thought
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  #28  
Old 11-10-2019, 11:49 PM
Birdbrain Birdbrain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeltrans View Post

How are the batteries of these hybrid and electric cars disposed of? Will we see some sort of environmental crisis as all these batteries come to needing to be replaced and disposed of?

Tony
According to several references, including Bloomberg, EV batteries that are no longer suitable for auto use are repurposed to store energy in less critical, stationary applications. Their ingredients can also be recycled, and factories are being opened to do this.
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  #29  
Old 11-11-2019, 01:10 PM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerbie View Post
Are any of you guys knowledgeable about hybrid engines? I'm contemplating a small, hybrid SUV and I haven't found a salesman yet who knows much about how the gas engine and the electric motor work together. Thanks.
As I see it, there are two basic hybrid designs: one where the wheels are turned by either the gasoline engine or the electric motor (parallel layout) and one where only the electric motor turns the wheels and the gasoline engine serves to run a generator to charge the batteries (series layout).

Usually, the series design yields better fuel efficiency and lower exhaust emissions. Most hybrids like the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight have a parallel drivetrain layout. The BMW i3 and Chevrolet Volt have the series drivetrain layout.
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  #30  
Old 11-11-2019, 06:59 PM
Birdbrain Birdbrain is offline
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Default One thing about fuel efficiency...

As your car's MPGs increase, the actual savings become smaller and smaller. That common miles per gallon figure is a ratio, so it's not additive. Consider a hundred-mile drive: you'd use five gallons in a 20 MPG car, four with 25 MPG, three with 33 mpg, and two at 50 MPG. To save another gallon and accomplish the trip with one, you have to double the MPGs to 100.

For this reason, once my car choice reaches 50 MPG, I stop thinking about further efficiency, and more about factors like range and performance and utility.
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