12 fret small body cutaway recommendations?

[ethanay]

Hey folks,


I'm tentatively going to be looking for a new wooden acoustic guitar that can be my main / recording axe. This will be to complement my Emerald X7 (24"), and to replace my Goodall Engelmann RGCC, which was too large for me to play comfortably for very long and caused/exacerbated some issues. The Emerald is very comfortable, and sounds great, but I miss the sound of a well-made wood guitar, especially for solo work but generally when recording. I do a lot of both fingerstyle and strumming/flatpicking, from mild to moderately aggressive, although I come from a primarily fingerstyle background. I also thought the Goodall had a little too much bass for my tastes.


That was never anywhere close to my actual reasons for getting rid of it, but it just is to say I think I wouldn't mind a guitar that had a little tighter sound in the bass.



Some specs that I feel pretty strongly about:

1. Cutaway (preferably venetian, I find that anything "pointier" than that gets in the way of 3-note chord work higher up bc it blocks my wrist from rotating. So even more preferable is the Breedlove-type of sloping cutaway)
2. 12-fret neck
3. 25"-ish scale (around that length, probably 25" max on treble side if multi-scale). I prefer 25.5 in terms of feel under my fingers, but shorter scales are more comfortable for my small hands and short arms. To me, ~25" is a good compromise. 24" minimum.
4. Under 15" lower bout, preferably more like 14-14.5" and 4" max body depth (I get away with a deeper 4.5" body in the X7 bc of its contouring, so I could probably go 4.5" with a forearm bevel)
5. Preferably no pickup (I like to install a passive K&K mini soundboard transducer, I have an outboard Red-Eye preamp I use for easier battery management)

Some smattering of instruments I'm looking at...

1. Larrivee PV-09 (sitka/rosewood): body might be a little bit too small (sensitivity/volume sacrifice), concerned there might be too much sonic overlap between it and the Emerald on the 24" scale for each, although construction and materials are radically different.
2. Breedlove Concertina (Adirondack/Rosewood): I don't know much about this model.
3. Bourgeois 00-12C cutaway (adirondack/rosewood): I can't seem to find any specs for its dimensions, but this reminds me a lot of my nylon string guitar, which is 14.5" lower bout and 3.5-4" deep

[Sdrew22]

PV-09 popped into my head immediately. I used to own one and loved it.

[KevinH]

I really like both my Breedlove (Redwood/EIR) Concertina and Bourgeois 12 fret (thought not a cutaway). Of those two I'd say the Bourgeois has a little better note separation, and a little more responsiveness than the Breedlove. The Breedlove has a darker tone to my ears. The Bourgeois would probably fit your "tighter sound in the bass".

Have you looked at the Taylor X22 series? You can get them with the Venetian cutaway. The lower bout is 15", but if you get the 12-fret version it feels smaller, at least to me.

[rmoretti49]

I'll echo what Kevin has said above about the Breedlove Concertina. Mine is from the Oregon series, spruce over myrtlewood. It is indeed somewhat darker than similar sized guitars of mine, and the bass is quite remarkable. But it does come with a pickup. I rarely play amplified, but the quality of the pickup seems rather good. All in all, it is a classy little guitar with a voice I really like.

[ethanay]

Originally Posted by KevinH

I really like both my Breedlove (Redwood/EIR) Concertina and Bourgeois 12 fret (thought not a cutaway). Of those two I'd say the Bourgeois has a little better note separation, and a little more responsiveness than the Breedlove. The Breedlove has a darker tone to my ears. The Bourgeois would probably fit your "tighter sound in the bass".

Have you looked at the Taylor X22 series? You can get them with the Venetian cutaway. The lower bout is 15", but if you get the 12-fret version it feels smaller, at least to me.

No, I haven't looked at it! 15" is pushing it especially with something closer to a 4.5" body depth. When I'm in playing position it puts my right shoulder in a weird position that my body hates over time.



Maybe if I can get one with a bevel but it's looking awfully close to the Goodall GC shape at this point that I had to abandon. I'd worry about the Taylor just GC being a less-sonically desirable and only slightly more comfortable and ergonomic version of my Goodall...? Do you know to what extent they spend time individually optimizing and voicing their higher end or custom shop builds?

[fngrpck]

Eddies Guitar has a very nice Froggy Bottom A12 fret with cutaway if you have a spare $12K hanging around.

[Rockysdad]

There's a Larrivée C-03 TE in the classifieds you should seriously look at.

As well there's a Larrivée LV-03 Forum VI guitar (only 19 made), I have one of these and they're spectacular.

No affiliation with the sellers.

[ethanay]

Originally Posted by Rockysdad

There's a Larrivée C-03 TE in the classifieds you should seriously look at.

As well there's a Larrivée LV-03 Forum VI guitar (only 19 made), I have one of these and they're spectacular.

No affiliation with the sellers.

Unfortunately the TE model puts me back where I started (worse, 16" lower bout...yikes), spec-wise, but I'm asking about the LSV-03 Forum. When you first said LV-03 I dismissed it again because I know that body is too large although when I was in high school I dreamed of owning an LV-03R back when I wasn't so concerned about ergonomics

[Shaneh]

Recording king makes a couple that meet your requirements

[Rockysdad]

Originally Posted by ethanay

Unfortunately the TE model puts me back where I started (worse, 16" lower bout...yikes), spec-wise, but I'm asking about the LSV-03 Forum. When you first said LV-03 I dismissed it again because I know that body is too large although when I was in high school I dreamed of owning an LV-03R back when I wasn't so concerned about ergonomics

The Forum guitar is actually an LSV-03, slightly smaller than a regular L body.
It's very comfortable.

[KevinH]

Originally Posted by ethanay

No, I haven't looked at it! 15" is pushing it especially with something closer to a 4.5" body depth. When I'm in playing position it puts my right shoulder in a weird position that my body hates over time.

Maybe if I can get one with a bevel but it's looking awfully close to the Goodall GC shape at this point that I had to abandon. I'd worry about the Taylor just GC being a less-sonically desirable and only slightly more comfortable and ergonomic version of my Goodall...? Do you know to what extent they spend time individually optimizing and voicing their higher end or custom shop builds?

No, I don't know about voicing of their custom builds. Everyone has their own tonal preferences, so the only way to really tell would be to try one. The lower bout would be the same as your Goodall, but the waist on the Taylor GC is smaller. Here is what a Taylor 522 sitting on top of a Goodall GCC would look like:

TvsG.jpg

It's surprising to me what the Taylor feels like. I have an OM with the same lower bout, and the waist is about the same as the Goodall, and it feels big to me. The Taylor feels smaller, because the narrower waist lets it sit lower on my knee (I always play seated). For a long time I thought my 522 was a 00 (my preference), because it feels like it. Anyway, don't let the lower bout put you off. If you can find one near you give it a go and see if you like the tone.

Oh, and the depth of my 522 is 4.25" at the tail. That might be part of it as well.

Good luck!

[Jimi2]

Originally Posted by ethanay

No, I haven't looked at it! 15" is pushing it especially with something closer to a 4.5" body depth. When I'm in playing position it puts my right shoulder in a weird position that my body hates over time.



Maybe if I can get one with a bevel but it's looking awfully close to the Goodall GC shape at this point that I had to abandon. I'd worry about the Taylor just GC being a less-sonically desirable and only slightly more comfortable and ergonomic version of my Goodall...? Do you know to what extent they spend time individually optimizing and voicing their higher end or custom shop builds?

I played a v-class 522ce a few times, and it had a just lovely, sweet tone. Not much bass though, despite it being a 12 fret. I wonder if x-braced versions sound better. At any rate, I would absolutely play one if you can find one nearby. I agree that they feel a lot smaller than OMs.

[mesabgM4]

Taylor 812ce is a GC body with a forearm bevel. It’s available as 14 or 12 fret configuration.

[ethanay]

Yeah, unfortunately that Larrivee LSV is a step backwards for me in terms of body size. My Goodall GC was 15" x 4.25 and the Larrivee would be 15.25 x 4.25. So I have to eliminate it along with the TE model for those reasons. Which is a ****ed shame because they seem like fantastic guitars at an incredible price point.


Need to get my arm around the front of the guitar without contorting my shoulder, neck and upper back...

[ethanay]

I should also mention when I play seated I rarely play with the guitar's waist on my thigh because I also have a relatively long torso plus short arms, which means the guitar sits too low. So I tend to play more like a classical guitar position with a high neck angle.



I mostly played the Goodall seated because then I could curve my back to help get my arm around the guitar. But that didn't help my back out at all and still wasn't great for my neck and shoulder and right arm generally.