Hollowbody electric for an acoustic player?

[Reggiedadog]

Evening AGF!

OK Ive seen this question has come up before but never really I think been resolved.

Im starting a new project soon, based around an acoustic duo I've been in for ages, basically we are going to add a double bass player and a drummer and go our as an 'acoustic quartet'- the gimmick is to be a wedding party band but with an acoustic/retro/vintage twist. (Dont know what its like in the states but brides over here go gaga for this vintage stuff for their weddings)

So new project= new guitar right?

Ive got two lovely acoustics, an Atkin 00018 and a Martin D18e retro, but in this quartet I will be playing the odd few solos on some songs and would like an electric guitar that would give me an acoustic tone and more of an electric tone when needed. I'd like it to look the part as well so originally thought something like a jazzbox- however when I've tried your traditional jazz box type guitar that was too muddy and not the sound I was after. Im going to go and try a Taylor T5 which could work, and I suppose I could install some sort of second pickup in my atkin for a 'lead' tone?

Any other ideas out there?

(ps Im aware if we call ourselves an acoustic quartet I shouldnt be using an hollowbody electric- but Ive found most of the brides I work with dont know what 'acoustic' even means- in fact quite often theyve pronounced it 'autistic...')

Thanks guys

[gr81dorn]

Eastman has a ton of full hollowbodies and some can pull off great acoutic tones via the pickups, but a lot of guitars can do that trick with the right pedals and amps, so the whole chain comes into play when dealing with electrics.

keep in mind that hollowbodies can be a nuisance in certain environments due to the feedback.

[JKA]

You're not going to find a semi acoustic that sounds like an acoustic is the quick answer. There are lots of reason why this is the case but a quick internet search will explain all.

Godins are cheap and cheerful and look the part...but they won't sound like an acoustic guitar either

[Reggiedadog]

Originally Posted by gr81dorn

Eastman has a ton of full hollowbodies and some can pull off great acoutic tones via the pickups, but a lot of guitars can do that trick with the right pedals and amps, so the whole chain comes into play when dealing with electrics.

keep in mind that hollowbodies can be a nuisance in certain environments due to the feedback.

Thanks, Ive heard good things about Eastmans will have to go and check some out- Im hoping with a double bass player and light touvh drummer (Im sure one must be out there somewhere) stage volume wont be too bad, plus Ill be using my Bose system which is pretty good at not feeding back

[62&climbing]

Godin 5th ave. Single pickup as in a jazz box or can be had in dual pickup. Its an arch top with a much thicker body than the Taylor T5Z. I've played them acoustically in the stores and think they sound pretty good. Worth checking out.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by JKA

...Godins are cheap and cheerful and look the part...but they won't sound like an acoustic guitar either

I have a Godin 5th Avenue that sounds exactly the way a student-model acoustic archtop guitar from the '40s-50s is supposed to sound: quick punchy attack, strong midrange emphasis, sharp "bark" on rhythm chords, short sustain - and if you were a kid taking lessons here in NYC during the Sputnik era an instrument of this type (had a non-truss rod Harmony Broadway myself) was your acoustic guitar, period. If your experience is limited in this area, suffice it to say that archtops not only have very different tonal and response characteristics compared to flattop instruments, they require a different technique - more akin to an orchestral-string player - to bring out their best; while they're not easy to master - very few players who didn't get started before about 1970 or so (when there were sufficient numbers of retired Big Band-era players around to pass along the technique) really understand how to, as they used to say, "coax the velvet out" - but if you're looking for a true vintage/retro musical and visual vibe they're a valuable addition to your arsenal...which leads me to:

Originally Posted by Reggiedadog

...I'm starting a new project soon... the gimmick is to be a wedding party band but with an acoustic/retro/vintage twist...

...I will be playing the odd few solos on some songs and would like an electric guitar that would give me an acoustic tone and more of an electric tone when needed. I'd like it to look the part as well so originally thought something like a jazzbox - however when I've tried your traditional jazz box type guitar that was too muddy and not the sound I was after...

Granted that I'm a born-&-bred New Yorker - about as "from the Colonies" as it gets - but thanks to several loyal subjects of Her Majesty I've known over the years I have some understanding of the music-hall tradition, and I'm going to guess (for better or worse) that based on your description, you're going to be specializing in that type of pre-WW II repertoire; that said, there are some similar groups over here whom I've seen in performance, and I'll offer my suggestions based on what I've seen of their equipment as well as my own hands-on experience...

First off, in terms of both tonal and visual authenticity you're definitely on the right path with an archtop - "jazzbox" as you call it - and if your group isn't overpoweringly loud there's no reason a good fully-carved archtop can't do double-duty, as both a fully-acoustic rhythm and lead instrument; these babies - especially the 17"/18" instruments of the '30s/40s - were made to project a rhythm line over a 20-piece horn section in the 2000+ seat theaters of the day, and if you're playing with minimal amplification (as in just a mic or two to give some assistance to the vocals) and a tasteful drummer you won't need a pickup. Thing is they don't come cheap on either side of the pond; while good Gibsons or Epiphones will be neither plentiful nor affordable in the UK I understand that both Levin and Hofner instruments are available at a fair price if you search - and if I were in your place I'd begin here...

Should you still prefer to go the amplified route I'd suggest something with a suspended pickup, where both the pickup and controls are mounted to the pickguard in order to preserve the guitar's full acoustic properties; while they will never sound like a truly "acoustic" guitar they have a rich, woody "tone-you-can-eat-with-a-spoon" that lends itself well to not only lead work, but to chord/melody accompaniment behind period ballads - and if you use a single-coil pickup like the '40s period-correct DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1000/1100 (recently reissued by and available through Guild) and the right amplifier there won't be any of the "mud" associated with many jazzboxes. Although I'm sure someone will suggest the Epiphone Masterbilt line with their built-in piezo-bridge pickups, IME neither their acoustic nor electric tonality (nor their acoustic volume) corresponds to their reasonably period-correct visuals - there's been a long-standing rumor that they're going to be discontinued in favor of a more historically-accurate fully-carved lineup, and the recent major price drop across the entire line only lends further credence to the story; that said, they are reasonably affordable - archtops tend to be more expensive than their flattop counterparts - and with a carefully-chosen set of strings you might be able to make one work for you...

Finally, if you'd like to stay all-acoustic and your repertoire permits - leaning more toward '20s-style cabaret/speakeasy jazz than the mellower styles of the Big Band era - you might consider both an inexpensive archtop like the Godin 5th Avenue for rhythm work, and a 4-string or 6-string banjo for leads; again, I've seen this done very effectively by quartets/quintets of the type you describe, and the four-string instruments can be (and often were, in the day) set up in some variation of guitar tuning to allow easy transition: plectrum banjos (essentially a 5-string bluegrass banjo minus the fifth string) are often played in "Chicago" DGBE tuning, like the top four strings of a guitar, and although the shorter-scale tenor banjos can also be set up this way "drop-G" tenor uke tuning (GCEA low-to-high, like a guitar capoed at the fifth fret) will provide a cutting tone that can be heard over the loudest acoustic instruments - FWIW I have a Deering Boston tenor banjo set up in drop-G that I use for Irish seisiuns and chantey sings (and I think we both know how raucous those can get). While there's virtually no learning curve for a 6-string banjo with its EADGBE tuning, unless you get a really good (read expensive) one the lower strings lack both tone and projection, and IME four-strings are more readily-available in both quantity and quality at a far-lesser price...

Best of luck - hope this helps...

[moosedog]

Reggiedadog I think you should give the T5 a good go. Over the years I’ve tried full hollow bodies and semi hollow bodies with the same idea in mind. To find an electric with a decent acoustic tone. The only thing that worked is the T5. I use acoustic light strings on mine and they still sound good on the occasional lead. It’s versatility is second to none. Best of luck.

[ronadair]

PRS Hollowbody II with Piezo might work for you.

[Sonics]

Get the pickup (which is secured with double-sided tape), a Roland floor unit and
your sounds will be limited by your imagination (...and you'll still look like an acoustic player.)

[perttime]

Originally Posted by Reggiedadog

Thanks, Ive heard good things about Eastmans will have to go and check some out- Im hoping with a double bass player and light touvh drummer (Im sure one must be out there somewhere) stage volume wont be too bad, plus Ill be using my Bose system which is pretty good at not feeding back

If you are going for an electric with magnetic pickups - and not using a "real" guitar amp - you should really have something between the guitar and the Bose. A preamp that emulates a guitar amp, at least. Many are quite happy with the low cost Joyo American Sound preamp pedal.

[billyg]

If we did have "like" buttons on AGF, I'd give DeRosa's post a double like. Man, great post. Fun reading.

[GHS]

Epiphone DOT. For under 400 about as good a tone as you can get for that "jazz" tone or B B King style tone for your band. Frets are finished perfect ( at least on mine) pick ups do the job and the balance is great. Check one out.

[FrankHudson]

There are a lot of ways to go, depending on what you want for a "look" and what you want for a "sound" and what you find comfortable to play.

If you want to look like an flattop acoustic and sound like one most of the time, but have a need for a few more "electric" leads, then a sound-hole magnetic pickup plugged into an amp modeler and then your PA (or real electric guitar amp) would be a choice. Somewhat like Steve I have nostalgia for that era and it's sound sometimes--in my case, think old Gabor Szabo records. You could just go with the external patch chord and keep whatever acoustic pickup you use normally for the rest. Another variation on the same idea would be the J160E. Or you could go 90's nostalgia and look for a Kurt Cobain/Nirvana unplugged Martin.

Bridge pickup equipped full-sized hollow-bodies will not sound like an flattop acoustic, but they are visually "read" as acoustic by audiences and can do more 50's and 60's rock than you might expect plugged into a guitar amp (or modeler and PA). And thin-line semi acoustic in the ES-335 range still has some of the traditional archtop acoustic look, and they can cover just about any rock guitar sound. If your show is really electric guitar sounds, but you want to look organic, that's a route to take. You can skip the flashy color options and opt for a nice tobacco sunburst or natural finish model.

Two guitars is a valid option too. Yes, I understand the load in/out factor.