classical music on nylon-string guitars

[t1m]

No, I'm not bashing nylon or steel string guitars. My feeling is pretty neutral to both and I feel both have their pros and cons.

I'm just curious to see what everybody's opinions were to why it is normally recommended (key word) to play classical music on a nylon guitar. Again, I understand you can play classical music on a steel string - I myself play mostly classical pieces and I only own steel string guitars. However, I don't think anybody can deny that if you ask any classical guitar teacher what guitar they recommend for their student...they would all say nylon.

I'm guessing it comes down to the following, but I'm not sure.

1) nylon guitars have a wider nut allowing a classical player to have more room to maneuver than if playing steel string.

2) nylon guitars seem easier to play and more forgiving/easier to achieve good tone than steel string especially when playing fast arpeggios. to me, steel string tone seems much more finicky to technique and attack when compared to nylon string.

3) nylon guitars sound warmer than steel string which fits better with most classical pieces.

4) 3 nylon strings + 3 lower gauge wound + overall lower tension, makes it easier to shift position w/o squeak and maneuver across fretboard.

Again, I may be completely off... but I am very curious to see everybody's opinions.

[Play2PraiseHim]

Come on over to the NYLON section of this forum with this question. You just might get a response.

[RussMason]

If you are really going to play classical style, then you had better get some lessons so you sit properly, hold the guitar right, and - most importantly - that your left hand position on the neck is 90 degrees, with your thumb tucked back, and not wrapped around the neck.

I don't know if you played folk style on your steel string before, but when I went for my first classical lesson I was told, "Everything you do is wrong."

He added that it would be more difficult for me to learn classical, because the muscles in my left hand had developed incorrectly, though folk-style playing.

Of course you can play classical pieces with non-classical technique, but the tone won't be there, nor the command of the fretboard.

Have fun!

[mr. beaumont]

All of what Russ said.

The biggest thing is, and my steel string lovin' friends will argue to no end against it, but a nylon string, played with good technique, allows for the most tonal variation of any type of guitar--just by using your hands. That expressiveness is what many pieces call for.

The other answer is, Segovia played a nylon string, and who's gonna argue with that?

[t1m]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

All of what Russ said.

The biggest thing is, and my steel string lovin' friends will argue to no end against it, but a nylon string, played with good technique, allows for the most tonal variation of any type of guitar--just by using your hands. That expressiveness is what many pieces call for.

The other answer is, Segovia played a nylon string, and who's gonna argue with that?

Thanks for all the input so far!

Russ -
I take lessons from a classical guitar instructor on a bi-weekly basis. While we mostly work on music theory and composition, he has been able to corrected a few bad habits and techniques to help fine-tune my playing. As far as the guitar positioning, I've been playing in classical position since I began finger style so it has never really been a problem for me.


mr.beaumont -
I am very intrigued by your opinion that nylon string guitars have the most tonal variation of any type of guitar because I actually feel the complete opposite.

One of the reasons that I chose to play a steel string over nylon is because I believe that I have a much larger tonal range with steel strings. I play with short nails which allows me to range my attacks from 60%flesh/40%nail to 10%flesh/90% nail which allows me to "color" my tones in a much wider range that I was able on the nylon strings that I've tried in the past. I also feel that I'm able to accent notes (when needed of course) with more clarity and sharpness due to the higher tension on steel strings.

Of course, I could be completely wrong because I'm not an expert on nylon guitars by any means, however, I'm curious to hear more on why you feel this is true and if you have any examples.

[mr. beaumont]

You gotta have good right hand technique to coax it out. Once you learn it, you can use it on any guitar, but it's most applicable to a nylon string. See if you can find a real trained player on YouTube (not some cat in his bedroom) playing "Sevilla" or "Leyenda" Watch their right hand closely and see all the different timbres acheived on those guitars.

[WaddyT]

You also have to play a good nylon string guitar! The differences are amazing!

[Classical Guy]

Hi there,

I began as a steel and electric player, with a similar notion that I could get more from steel. Some 35 years later I now think classical and nylon are synonimous.

Your explanation of how you get your tonal variation by varying the flesh/nail attack shows a degree of skill and knowledge - but an exra dimension significant to nylon classical playing is where on the string, in relation to proximity to the bridge or soundhole, you play the note. This produces a wide range of tonal variety with lots of subtle shades on offer.

I'm not saying nylon is better but it does seem to offer a greater range of subtle differences to a players options.

Also, from a practical piont of view - if you play a lot (like I do) then steel strings wear nails away really quickly - especially if you have an attacking style or you're practicing a vigorous piece.

In the end , though, it's your music - do what makes you happy !

Don

[Kindness]

The wonderful thing about nylon stringed guitars is that you can play a wide variety of repertoire on it, from classical, to Eva Cassidy and many others. Tonal qualities do vary greatly on nylon instruments, IMHO. Clearly, strings are a huge matter and do make a difference for each instrument.

But classical on my steel string just does not work. The tone, the brightness doesn't achieve what I think many of the artists would want. And I do like the wider neck on mine, give me more room to move around.

One thing I think that some may agree on. Classical techniqe does help ones technique on the steel string. I personally have made great strides forward since playing classical guitar.

[john bange]

I think everyone has made very accurate comments which show the skill levels of all taking part. All I can add is that I have seen hard rock guitarists sitting down, fooling around with a classical guitar and making the most beautiful music, a classical guitar teacher I once had( who could get nowhere with her stuborn student) could rock out with the best on her Fender. Both, when returning to their chosen styles picked up the steel string for rock and the classical for classical.

[wcap]

Right hand technique is really important for good tone on any guitar, but I have always thought that good right hand technique, in conjunction with good nails, was particularly important on a classical guitar. Without good nails I really can't get decent tone from my classical. Nails are important for me on steel string too, but I can get the steel strings to sound pretty good without them.

[guto]

Some things are right on the original post, but Classical guy got it right in my opinion.
I do think a really good classical guitar will have a wider pallete of tones then an acoustic.

Something else no one mentioned is note separation. It is easier to hear diferent voices on a GOOD nylon classical then in an acoustic. Too many overtones sounding together may get too confusing.

[WaddyT]

Bert Lams, of the California Guitar Trio, did an album of the Bach Preludes on steel string. Pretty good, considering, but not the same as on a classical guitar. Seems a little thin, soundwise, to me. However, good playing, and generally, a pretty good album. He's a talented player.

[Kabalan]

hi
i play both guitars;
we do baroque pieces for harpsichord and guitar, i used nylon, but now i
been performing with steel, the combination it is great: sounds like a huge
guitar!

[Brent Hutto]

A good nylon string guitar and a good steel string guitar sound no more alike than do a mandolin and a banjo. Two entirely different sounds. Most classical music sounds better to most ears when played on nylon strings.

But tastes vary, if you dig the sound of Tarrega's "Adelita" on a steel string guitar then that's the way to play it. Or "Little Wing" on a classical guitar. Go for it.

Most musical choices don't come down to what kind of instrument makes it easiest to play. If it doesn't make a sound someone wants to hear then wider fretboards or using your thumb on the bottom string doesn't matter at all.