Lightly built guitars lacking bass??

[6ixxer]

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

Bass response is largely, but not solely, controlled by the back of the guitar. Something that many inexperienced builders haven’t quite figured out yet. Of the guitars that you mentioned, I would venture to speculate that they were not custom built for any one individual but rather built to their median engineered spec which is more than likely a balanced guitar from bass to treble. It’s not difficult to build a guitar with all the bass that you want but it all begins by a thorough interview of the player to whom the guitar is built and voiced for. What your looking for might be like looking for a needle in a hay stack. You might want to reach out to some of the builders who sponsor this forum as a place to start.

That is interesting you mention the back influencing the bass response. Are you referring to the bracing pattern on the back? Or how the back is voiced?

[gitarro]

I have played a factory made guitar that was built lightly and found that while it seemed to be quite responsive, its tone was thin and lacking in depth and that included the bass.

On the other hand I have played many more lightly built guitars made by solo or team of luthiers and most of them had very good deep even sometimes profound bass.

I think it depends on the skill of the builder and his is where the individual voicing of the guitar is so important and a major reason why solo luthiers have a huge advantage over factories.

[6ixxer]

Originally Posted by gitarro

I have played a factory made guitar that was built lightly and found that while it seemed to be quite responsive, its tone was thin and lacking in depth and that included the bass.

On the other hand I have played many more lightly built guitars made by solo or team of luthiers and most of them had very good deep even sometimes profound bass.

I think it depends on the skill of the builder and his is where the individual voicing of the guitar is so important and a major reason why solo luthiers have a huge advantage over factories.

Thanks for the input. It sounds like what you are saying is the key. Not how lightly or heavily it is built, but how the guitar is voiced. Now I am looking for how to voice it for a profound bass like you described.

[gitarro]

Originally Posted by 6ixxer

Thanks for the input. It sounds like what you are saying is the key. Not how lightly or heavily it is built, but how the guitar is voiced. Now I am looking for how to voice it for a profound bass like you described.

That's right. If you like the bass on the guitars you have played that were made by the luthier of your choice then that's a good indication he will be able to build for you a guitar with the kind of bass you like. If I were you, I would never ask the luthier to try and give you a particular tonality in your head or that you have heard in someone else's guitar because that would be asking him to chase a very subjective target and try to do something he has not necessarily done before - which turns your build into a lab rat or Guinea pig - and you know what happens normally to lab rats...

[chippygreen]

Originally Posted by 6ixxer

Thanks for the input. It sounds like what you are saying is the key. Not how lightly or heavily it is built, but how the guitar is voiced. Now I am looking for how to voice it for a profound bass like you described.

This is the conclusion I've come to as well. Playing and listening lots of different guitars and finding the voicing that strikes the right balance of trade-offs (there are always trade-offs) is an important part of the journey. That said, my Michaud J-R produces a wonderful bass response while retaining great articulation in the mids and highs. Joel set out to create an instrument with a big voice, crisp bass and clear treble, in what I consider a lightly built guitar in comparison to my other J/0000 sized guitars, and it shows.

[Allentown]

The tony rice has a large sound hole to emphasize highs/mids so should not expect a super bold bass response.

[Roccorobb]

Anecdotally, I've noticed that the primary resonant frequency of the top is almost a sure predictor of bass response, at least in my little collection of guitars. I just stick my head in the hole and sing a downward gliss until the top starts to go wild. Usually somewhere between a low G and Ab. The tops that are tuned lower almost always have a more expensive sounding low end.

[gitarro]

What is the most impressive is how you manage to fit your head in the sound hole of your guitar ... LOL

More seriously I have been told that somogyi unes his guitars lower than other luthiers and that is one of the reasons why the bass on all his guitars sound so good.

Originally Posted by Roccorobb

Anecdotally, I've noticed that the primary resonant frequency of the top is almost a sure predictor of bass response, at least in my little collection of guitars. I just stick my head in the hole and sing a downward gliss until the top starts to go wild. Usually somewhere between a low G and Ab. The tops that are tuned lower almost always have a more expensive sounding low end.

[Tim McKnight]

Originally Posted by 6ixxer

That is interesting you mention the back influencing the bass response. Are you referring to the bracing pattern on the back? Or how the back is voiced?

Varying the bracing pattern, brace voicing, back thickness and thickness graduation all play individual roles in voicing a back. None of which one will find in a guitar constructed in a factory to a predetermined engineered spec.

Originally Posted by Roccorobb

Anecdotally, I've noticed that the primary resonant frequency of the top is almost a sure predictor of bass response, at least in my little collection of guitars. I just stick my head in the hole and sing a downward gliss until the top starts to go wild. Usually somewhere between a low G and Ab. The tops that are tuned lower almost always have a more expensive sounding low end.

But... were you listening to the main air mode with the back damped or coupled with the top? Blowing or singing into the sound hole, with the back damped, will only yield the main frequency of the top which is only allowing the air to bounce off of an damped / inactive / reflective back. Try the same experiment with the back free, not touching anything, so its is allowed to couple with the top and you will hear something very different.