Help Me Understand Some "Basic" Stuff

[fpuhan]

I work in a technical field, but when it comes to guitars, I'm pretty ignorant.

There, I said it. I admit it.

I have amassed a small collection of guitars, but know very little about their technical aspects. Yeah, I know the basic difference between humbuckers and single coils. That's not what I'm talking about.

The guitars I have purchased have, for the most part, appealed to my eyes, ears and hands. Overall, I think I've been pretty lucky buying online, because there's nary a clunker in the batch.

That said, I couldn't begin to tell you what I've bought. OK, I bought a Gretsch Jim Dandy, which everyone calls a "parlor guitar," and it's certainly smaller than most. I also have a Breedlove Signature Companion CE which is only about 1" taller than the Gretsch, but I don't think anyone calls it "parlor-sized."

On a recent visit to my LGS, I asked for a recommendation on a smaller guitar with a deep and resonant sound (yes, I know that's asking a lot). The response I got was, "A Huss and Dalton 0 or 00." Did they have any? Sorry, they haven't been able to get one is quite a while.

Uh, OK. Not long ago I bought an Alvarez DELTA00-TSB, which is one of the rare clunkers (for me). I bought it because it was positioned as a parlor size, but it most certainly isn't. It's a pretty guitar, with some great workmanship, but the neck is unplayable for my small hands.

Guitar makers toss out a dizzying array of names and numbers. Martin uses the O-OO-OOO unless they don't, in which case it's dreadnought, concert, auditorium, D-28, HD-28, D-35, etc. Taylor has to go its own way with the Grand This and Grand That.

If you're in the know, this stuff comes easy for you. But I can't seem to wrap my head around it. I have a Big Baby Taylor-e, which I gather is a 15/16 size guitar, but it's larger than my GS Mini, which is just about perfect. If I could duplicate that without buying another, that would answer a lot of my questions. Maybe.

Perhaps I should think about buying another GS Mini. But how does one focus on a particular guitar size/shape? Is there a reference of some sort.

I'll probably get drummed out of the guitar pickers union for this, but when I start, my head gets spinning...

[woodbox]

First of all,
you won’t be getting “drummed out” today.. not from AGF anyway.

Next,
there’s nothing wrong with being confused by all the nomenclature.
And why do I say that?
Because it’s confusing.

But just wait, and be prepared for a whole lotta good people offering you a whole lotta helpful information.

My advice at this point?
Learn about Taylor descriptions first, because you already have Taylor’s.
But I see you have Martin’s too.
So divide this into smaller pieces.. one at a time.
Pay attention to how some digits (letters and/or numbers) refer to the body size/shape/dimensions,
and some refer to the wood used in construction.

ps..
i like how you write

[nomey]

I recently went looking for the same guitar, a small bodied guitar that had a big deep sound. It was for my partner who finds normal guitar sizes really uncomfortable.

I had a budget where you might not, but I ended up buying a Yamaha CSF3-M. For the money I think it was a really good purchase. Solid spruce top, solid mahogany back and sides. The passive pickup that comes with it is a bit rubbish but acoustically it sounds big and loud and warm and its TINY.

[Rogerblair]

Welcome and worry not. It will start to become clear, but you will need to immerse yourself in study for a bit.

I’d suggest going to the websites of the various makers whose products are of interest. There they describe in detail, the specs of all their offerings.
Very quickly you will become familiar with all the nomenclature.

Good luck and enjoy the swim. It’s rewarding.

Rb

[buddyhu]

So, you want “a smaller guitar with a deep and resonant sound.”

It sounds like you need to go someplace where there are lots of guitars of different sizes available to play, and just get more experience with the sounds that come from different woods and different sizes.

Only you can decide what body size is small enough, but still gives you the deep resonance you are seeking. Most of the guitars you have described would not work well for me: too small. I have never been tempted to buy anything smaller than a 00, and am quite comfortable with dreadnaughts and jumbos

If I were you, I’d look for an 000 with rosewood back and sides.

Once you locate something that you like, you can go to the website of the maker and look at the measurements they provide (some makers are very thorough, others are not), and can then identify guitars that have measurements that hold some promise, and try to find some of those to play. Looking at the measurements might help you to understand the similarities underneath the different names. It is like learning a new language, and it takes time the way learning a language takes time.

Enjoy the exploration! It’s an adventure.

[Toucan]

If the GS mini is almost perfect, you might want to check out the Taylor GT. I was in the same quandary until I actually played one, then I had to have one. The code name at Taylor for the guitar was "Goldilocks".

[DCCougar]

Originally Posted by fpuhan

...Martin uses the O-OO-OOO unless they don't, in which case it's dreadnought, concert, auditorium, D-28, HD-28, D-35, etc. Taylor has to go its own way with the Grand This and Grand That....

Get yourself a Guild jumbo and be done with it!

[ssynhorst]

It is the variables that make this a fascinating lifelong pursuit. To shorten the journey would be to diminish it. Savor it gradually. - Stevo

[donlyn]

Help Me Understand Some "Basic" Stuff


fpuhan,

Do not despair. At least yet.

'Woodbox' mentioned learning guitar model nomenclature one builder at a time. And mentioned that Taylor would be a good place to start.

I second that motion.

Why? Because Taylor is probably the easiest to decipher and their site has all kinds of guitar info on it. Much of it is Taylor-centric of course, but there is a lot there about shapes and woods and all kinds of general stuff. If you have bought a new Taylor instrument like the Big Baby (or maybe even used?), you can sign up for their 'house' magazine "Wood & Steel" which is packed with guitar facts and related background information. Just register the guitar.

Taylor site:
https://www.taylorguitars.com/

They will explain their model series by number, and it's reasonably logical. The site is quite large and can be difficult to navigate based on it's sheer size. The search engine is useless, but play around on the site and you can find your way around.

For example, the basic Taylor nomenclature consists of 3 digits. The first is the model series (1-9), followed by the wood (1,2,5,6), and last is the shape (1-8).

The series tells you what appointments (bling) are on the guitar, while 1 and 2 first digits are generally made in Mexico. The second (wood) 1 and 2 numbers are for six string, the 5 and 6 numbers denote 12 string; 1 and 5 denote standard wood of that class, while 2 and 6 indicate a different wood.

The last digit is the shape, from 1 being Grand Theater to 8 being Grand Orchestra. Don't know if they've ever used a 9 for the last digit.

Of course there are modifications and exceptions, but these are usually noted with letters, sometimes appended to the 3 digit sequence. A 'c' or an 'e' indicates cutaway and on-board electronics respectively. A 'K' indicates Koa, an 'R' indicates rosewood, and an 'L' indicates a limited edition.

Not a Taylor, but a hint on the chaos that generally exists in nomenclature, is that the Gibson J-200 Jumbo guitar got it's nomenclature because it originally cost $200. Go figure. And always blame marketing.

A Taylor spruce over maple Jumbo would be an 815 model. (Spruce over maple has been standard on Gibson J-200s since post-WWII).

There was a very recent thread in which the Original Poster (OP) asked about 'standards' in the industry. Find that one; it is a corollary to your question, and possibly has info you didn't even think to ask.
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=632213

Read as many threads as possible. You might find some interesting reading on a random thread.

Good luck and good hunting,
Don
.

[Nathan777]

Most of your issues would seemingly be resolved by understanding the few basic measurements that almost all makers list. There's no reason to be surprised by the size of a guitar if you understand lower bout, upper bout, depth, body length, waist, scale length. A quick google search for Martin or Taylor body sizes will give you dimensions for their models. Clicking around on their sites should pretty quickly explain their nomenclature as well. If you like the size of your GS Mini then get started on a hunt for guitars with similar dimensions, that's the fun.

[warfrat73]

First of all, you don't get drummed out of the guitar union, you get strummed out (obviously... geesh).

One of the more confusing things about all of this is that lots of different manufacturers take a fair amount of liberty with these designations. Another confusing thing is that "parlor" doesn't have any kind of really clear parameters the way that Martin 0 or 00 do. But, the term parlor is typically used to refer to older style guitars that reference instruments made around the turn of the 20th century. As part of that, I would typically expect a guitar designated as a parlor to have a fairly wide nut width.

It's not as common to see that term used to describe more modern small instruments, for which the terms "baby" or "travel" or "mini" seem to be preferred. That said, there are a few corners of the internet where Ive seen things as large as 00s referred to as parlor guitars by folks who don't really know any better.

Ok, this leads me to a little bit of confusion with your post, particularly with regards to the Alvarez. I looked it up, and nowhere do I see it referred to as a parlor. There's even a "00" in the name, which suggests that it's modeled after some sort of 00 model. And, having a quick look, it seems in particular to be modeled after the Gibson L-00 (which is different, but of similar dimensions to the Martin 00). Now, given your expressed confusion about body sizes, and the fact that I've definitely seen people refer to 00s as parlors, the confusion here is reasonable.

But here's the thing that's confusing me a bit, and that is that your expressed problem with it was playability due to your small hands. I'm not quite sure how a slightly larger body size would be a problem in this case. And I'm wondering if you're not actually referring to an issue with the nut width or the neck carve. Either of which seem to have more to do with playability as it relates to hand size. If that's the case, it might be important to note that neither how big the neck is, nor how wide the nut are, are necessarily connected to body dimensions which, along with scale length, are primarily what designations like 0, 00, 000 refer to. That is, you can have a fat neck on a small guitar, and skinny neck on a big guitar. And, as I alluded to before, guitars that carry the parlor name do tend to have chunkier necks and fairly wide nut widths (because that's the tradition), which would feel quite different from your GS Mini.

Anyway, for what it's worth, here's a pretty good run down of Martin body shapes:http://onemanz.com/guitar/reviews/ac...l-designation/

There are other charts out there that put Martin and Gibson and Taylor into comparison. But, again, some companies play a bit loose with these designations.

[Gdjjr]

I liken guitar sizing and labeling to Harley Davidson model labeling- I asked, in the past, I wonder why they don't just call it what it is with the manufacturer name as the prefix- I have, however, determined I like a Concert body, and I like a Cedar top- I prefer a thin line, shallow body depth (under 4 in).

I would like, I think, a thin bodied dreadnaught- I'm a little guy, 5', 6 1/2" 145 lbs on a good day my hands fit my body size and I'm amazed at watching people play whose fret hand doesn't lean/angle away from them when chording- I can't use my fingers straight up and down to save my neck.... no pun intended

I suspect that Martin, being an originator and icon in the guitar world sets the standard with their 0, 00, 000 and dreadnaught styles-

[EZYPIKINS]

A parlor guitar was something usually left and played in the parlor of the home.

Usually, small bodied 12 fret guitar. Small enough to lean against the wall in a corner.

Does your house have a parlor? Mine doesn't.

I have living room guitars. Now and then they become deck guitars.

Some are small some are not so small.

Don't fret it (pun intended)

Buy what you like. Pass by the rest.

Play to your hearts content.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by fpuhan

I work in a technical field, but when it comes to guitars, I'm pretty ignorant.

There, I said it. I admit it.

I have amassed a small collection of guitars, but know very little about their technical aspects. Yeah, I know the basic difference between humbuckers and single coils. That's not what I'm talking about.

The guitars I have purchased have, for the most part, appealed to my eyes, ears and hands. Overall, I think I've been pretty lucky buying online, because there's nary a clunker in the batch.

That said, I couldn't begin to tell you what I've bought. OK, I bought a Gretsch Jim Dandy, which everyone calls a "parlor guitar," and it's certainly smaller than most. I also have a Breedlove Signature Companion CE which is only about 1" taller than the Gretsch, but I don't think anyone calls it "parlor-sized."

On a recent visit to my LGS, I asked for a recommendation on a smaller guitar with a deep and resonant sound (yes, I know that's asking a lot). The response I got was, "A Huss and Dalton 0 or 00." Did they have any? Sorry, they haven't been able to get one is quite a while.

Uh, OK. Not long ago I bought an Alvarez DELTA00-TSB, which is one of the rare clunkers (for me). I bought it because it was positioned as a parlor size, but it most certainly isn't. It's a pretty guitar, with some great workmanship, but the neck is unplayable for my small hands.

Guitar makers toss out a dizzying array of names and numbers. Martin uses the O-OO-OOO unless they don't, in which case it's dreadnought, concert, auditorium, D-28, HD-28, D-35, etc. Taylor has to go its own way with the Grand This and Grand That.

If you're in the know, this stuff comes easy for you. But I can't seem to wrap my head around it. I have a Big Baby Taylor-e, which I gather is a 15/16 size guitar, but it's larger than my GS Mini, which is just about perfect. If I could duplicate that without buying another, that would answer a lot of my questions. Maybe.

Perhaps I should think about buying another GS Mini. But how does one focus on a particular guitar size/shape? Is there a reference of some sort.

I'll probably get drummed out of the guitar pickers union for this, but when I start, my head gets spinning...

You already have one. Go try a Taylor Academy 12, it's in between a GS MIni and a standard Taylor in scale length and is based on the Taylor GC body which is Taylor's smallest "full size" body. Plus it has a body bevel, making it even more comfortable to play.

If you don't receive Taylor's "Wood and Steel" magazine you should go to their website and download the latest issue (It's a free pdf). The new issue has a very extensive article on the current trend towards "Small guitar popularity".

[619TF]

Martin Comparisons:



Taylor Comparisons:



For those who'd rather watch video (and this one from earlier 2021 shows the updated shapes available) as to the Taylors:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4485QPVnm0o