Can we have another vent thread about Taylor's obsession with ES2?

[Wade Hampton]

The whole appeal of Taylor guitars with built-in electronics and cutaways is that the buyer doesn’t have have to worry about any of that. Most guitar buyers aren’t thinking about the obsolescence of the pickup system ten years from now, but are thinking about right now, this weekend, this Sunday.

What’s more, most of them don’t know about aftermarket electronics or WANT to know. Very few get into it on the molecular level that the forum participants here care about. They just like the convenience of having all that built in, even if they never plug in at all.

Taylor is in business to move substantial numbers of guitars, and it’s this configuration of a cutaway with built-in electronics that sells best for them.


whm

[stringbound]

To me, the (latest) ES2 is the best factory installed piezo systems on the market. One might complain that the output is a bit low, but a decent preamp can solve the issue. The ES2 has none of the piezo quack, is quite feedback resistant, has a most neutral sound and is a good tool to shape your life sound without fuzz. As long as you keep an eye on the status of the battery, you are good to go.

Soundwise, I prefer the ES2 in combination with the DPA 4099 Core. Think of the piezo/mic combo of the LR Baggs Anthem with an even more natural sound and no need for a preamp. When I can't use the DPA 4099, I play through the Audio Sprockets Tonedexter.

To get a neutral sound from an amp, I prefer either a stick (Fishman SA330X) or an amp with at least an 8" speaker (Acus One 8 or AER Compact 60), to prevent the speaker from having an impact on the mid frequencies. At the moment I play through an Acus One For Street 10, getting good results with my ES2 equipped Taylor 914ce, even without the DPA 4099 adding more warmth and body to the sound.

Also, don't forget, that you can order every Taylor without a pickup. It isn't Taylor's fault, when your dealer doesn't offer you to order a Taylor without pickup for you.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

The whole appeal of Taylor guitars with built-in electronics and cutaways is that the buyer doesn’t have have to worry about any of that. Most guitar buyers aren’t thinking about the obsolescence of the pickup system ten years from now, but are thinking about right now, this weekend, this Sunday.

What’s more, most of them don’t know about aftermarket electronics or WANT to know. Very few get into it on the molecular level that the forum participants here care about. They just like the convenience of having all that built in, even if they never plug in at all.

Taylor is in business to move substantial numbers of guitars, and it’s this configuration of a cutaway with built-in electronics that sells best for them.


whm

+1, Wade! A Taylor "e" or "ce" model is ready for the stage right out of its shipping carton with its ES2, strap buttons, and usually a good factory action and neck-relief setup.

[Kinda Old]

It's because many of us who buy acoustic guitars dream of performing, though we may or may not ever do it. Electric guitars are meant for the stage (mostly). I play open mics about a dozen times a year (not last year). Decades before I ever walked up on stage I bought only guitars with electronics. The holes never bothered me and it kept the dream alive.

[GCWaters]

Don’t like it, don’t buy it…Taylor seems to be doing just fine without you….

[Nathan777]

Originally Posted by GCWaters

Don’t like it, don’t buy it…Taylor seems to be doing just fine without you….

What an insightful comment. I wonder if the shops sitting on millions of dollars in unsold new old stock high-end Taylors with ES2 they were forced to take because of dealer agreements would agree.

[GCWaters]

Originally Posted by Nathan777

What an insightful comment. I wonder if the shops sitting on millions of dollars in unsold new old stock high-end Taylors with ES2 they were forced to take because of dealer agreements would agree.

And you know this how?

[stringbound]

Originally Posted by Nathan777

What an insightful comment. I wonder if the shops sitting on millions of dollars in unsold new old stock high-end Taylors with ES2 they were forced to take because of dealer agreements would agree.

Nobody forced the shop I'm working at to become a Taylor premium dealer. We sell more high end Taylors, than Martin and Gibson hi end acoustics combined. And we don't have any "new old stock" hi end Taylors, we can't order them as fast as we sell them. And you also might want to consider, that the hi end models (Builder's Edition, 900 and Presentation) have a kind of limited availability.

[kbelland]

I find the ES2 issue so frustrating because I like Taylor's and there are very few ones available without a pickup. I recently bought an AD22E. I just couldn't get a usable sound When playing with a drummer. It seems when you turn it up it gets kind of metallic and sounds too electric. I took it back for a refund although I was very satisfied with the acoustic sound. I ended up buying a Taylor GT urban ash and couldn't be more satisfied. It does not have a pickup and I am quite confident it will sound fine with a K&K pickup. My experience is that when I try out the ES2 system in a quiet music store on an acoustic guitar amplifier at low volume it sounds pretty good. When I try to adapted to playing with other musicians through a PA system is where it seems to fall short. I also inquired about special ordering various Models without the ES2 system.There is a $300 up charge for this. Just not practical. If you like the signature sound of Taylors and their incredibly playable necks, the ES2 system is such a wet blanket.

[Steely Glen]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

The whole appeal of Taylor guitars with built-in electronics and cutaways is that the buyer doesn’t have have to worry about any of that. Most guitar buyers aren’t thinking about the obsolescence of the pickup system ten years from now, but are thinking about right now, this weekend, this Sunday.

What’s more, most of them don’t know about aftermarket electronics or WANT to know. Very few get into it on the molecular level that the forum participants here care about. They just like the convenience of having all that built in, even if they never plug in at all.

Taylor is in business to move substantial numbers of guitars, and it’s this configuration of a cutaway with built-in electronics that sells best for them.


whm

Wade, you basically described my guitar journey more than a decade ago. As I was learning guitar (and learning GAS) circa 2007, I really wanted a Taylor. I got a used 414ce with the old Fishman barndoor that I played for several years. Great guitar. I then traded up to a new 2010 816ce with the ES. It was so beautiful (maple binding….mmm) and so dang easy to play that I began arguing that the ES was a great pickup system….because it’s what I had. Often people commented on the guitar, which looked amazing and sounded pretty good acoustically, that I assumed it had to sound good whilst plugged in. So I thought the ES was the world’s best pickup.

On this forum, I fought for it. I defended it. I claimed to love it. Really because that’s all I knew. But when I listened to clips of my live tone and A/B’d it to other options, I had a reckoning. And that moment really was a watershed for me because I knew that Taylor guitars were pretty much wedded to the ES. So—as my signature block shows—I moved on.

My ear and my tastes have changed a lot too. I now prefer much prefer more “traditional” guitar tones and aesthetics. I much prefer non-obtrusive pickup systems (K&K) that don’t require batteries or holes. But that was definitely not the “me” of 15 years ago.

[Br1ck]

We all can change. I stay away from playing pre war Martin dreadnaughts because I don't need a permanent reminder of what I can not have. As I recently found out, after trying out five or six Weber mandolins, I did not care for them, but the seventh, bingo.

I did try a wonderful Taylor baritone. It doesn't take more than three minutes to try a guitar, so I'd always recommend doing so. I try pretty much every used guitar in the shop, from a beat up 000 15 to a minty SCGC dread. Lots of good guitars out there, including Japanese guitars from the seventies. Just because you don't like a guitar brand doesn't mean you won't like the next one you pick up.

[Tnfiddler]

I had an ‘02 W10ce that didn’t come with the ES system and had a K&K installed in it at their shop. I called Taylor and found out that it was ordered that way and also had some other custom touches added it to it that made it a 1 of 1 guitar. It sounded great, but was one of 2 higher-end Taylor guitars that I traded for my first Bourgeois. The other was an ‘08 Fall Ltd. GS Koa/Cocobolo that was AMAZING sounding unplugged. It was a pure mess plugged-in though and that’s the reason why I sold it. It had the ES1 system in it and if I’d been smart, I’d ripped it out and put a Lyric or Anthem pickup in it and left the knobs in it, just for looks. I think the ES2 in my Koa GS Mini sounds pretty great.

[EZYPIKINS]

Originally Posted by GCWaters

Don’t like it, don’t buy it…Taylor seems to be doing just fine without you….

Absolutely

Can't bring myself to like the tone of a Taylor. Or the ES2

So my money goes elsewhere.

But they are beautiful guitars.

Only ones I ever bought were gifts for youngsters.

[Rick Shepherd]

I agree with what you have to say. I ordered an 814c, no e in 2011, waited three months. Bummer having to wait so long, but it was worth it to me not to have the e. I absolutely love my 814c!’ I put my own pickup in it and it sounds amazing!

[tbtxaz21]

I just bought this for $977 off Reverb as a factory blemish. 214. Gonna put an anthem in it. Leave the tone knobs. I think it will sound fine. I like how it plays, I think it looks cool, and I wanted a non several thousand $$guitar to gig with so if it gets beat up a little I won’t freak. We’ll see how it goes. If it doesn’t work I’ll have a good campfire guitar.



As to the original rant, I agree. The ES2 is terrible.