Stable tuning on a Nylon string Guitar?

[baseball]

TL;DR.... can't seem to get my nylon string guitar to stay in tune

I just bought my first nylon string ever. I watched video's and strung it up yesterday, as the set of strings on it was from 20 years ago.

I found that after a lot of playing and stretching, it wouldn't stay in tune for more than a 4 minute piece. It wasn't going way of tune, BUT after every two or three sheets of study material I would check and in particularly the Non wound strings (G B E) were always a few ticks down on the tuner...the wound strings didn't seem to be quite as touchy. When I play My steel string guitars I can go 30-45 minutes of playing without needing to tune....and after I restring it is usually stable after about 10 minutes of hard play

These are those meat and potatoes nylons. D'addario EJ45's

Questions:#1. I am a medium accomplished steel string finger style player...I have pretty strong hands from being a manual laborer. Am I maybe just picking too hard? I normally play my OM28 for long periods of time with 12-53 steels with no problem

#2. Am I just impatient? Do Nylons take longer to stabilize? I noticed when I checked it a few hours later, it was even flatter.... I ended up tuning to D# for the rest of the evenings playing just because I was tired of all the tuning....That seemed to stay stabler

#3. Is this normal... It is a decent guitar..an Esteve' 1GR08 but I know it's not a 2k concert piece... is it just because it's not a top drawer guitar?

#4. Did I perhaps not string it right on the head stock. I did the double wrap mambo like it showed in the video, and I have tuned a lot of steel string slot heads before.... but is there some detail I am missing with Nylons?

Really appreciate any insights you veterans might have for a newb. Thanks ahead of time

[pentaprism]

I think it's perfectly normal. Nylon strings take a few days to become reasonably stable. The first day is just horrible.

At least I use this excuse to justify to my SWMBO why I need more than one classical guitar.

[dropt]

Nylon strings take longer to stabilize than steel strings. As others have said, it takes 2 or 3 days for the guitar to stay mostly in tune as you go from song to song.

But it may take weeks to reach the point where you take the guitar from it's case and it needs little adjustment to be in tune. A running joke is that when you get to that point, it's time to replace the strings.

[baseball]

Thanks for that.... I didn't know what was 'normal' and it's all new. I restrung a steel today and it was holding tune in 10 minutes....
Took the nylon out and di some work out stuff and it hadn't moved too much from the D# tuning I left it in, though the perfectionist in me always wants to be at 440.


...and that IS a great excuse to get another guitar (LOL)... My son came over and played this one and already has it in his crosshairs, so I might need another soon!

Thanks

[ssynhorst]

It is worse than that. Every day it will need to be retuned, and again after you have played a while, and when the room warms up, and when the sun goes behind a cloud. These guitars are very pernickety. They are very feminine after all. Just look at the shape. - Stevo

[kkrell]

I've always stretched them at the beginning and retuned. Repeat until they don't go off.

[rmp]

I'll just pile on here,

what everyone is saying is the honest truth of nylon string'd guitars.

they are not as "hearty" with staying in tune as steel strings.

it will take a while for the tunning to be stable, and after, you'll find you're still making tuning adjustments much more frequently than with your steel string'd guitars

take it as a cost / consequence of having a tone that no steel string guitar can give ya..

[Willie_D]

This is why the previous strings were on for 20 years.

[mr. beaumont]

Nylon strings. beautiful, expressive sound, and a bit of a pain in the rear...

And that doesn't even address some of the inherent intonation issues you might come across once the guitar is in tune consistently.

Go see a classical player live...they'll retune for every piece. It's the nature of the instrument. But it's worth it

[brad4d8]

Changing strings on a classical is a little different than on a steel, and sometimes the unwound strings can slip if not secured properly. The double twist method demonstrated by Alice Artzt here shows that technique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfTKz9IvyVM

[tbirdman]

Originally Posted by brad4d8

Changing strings on a classical is a little different than on a steel, and sometimes the unwound strings can slip if not secured properly. The double twist method demonstrated by Alice Artzt here shows that technique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfTKz9IvyVM

I found this website the best source for installing strings as they review different techniques. Seems for installing classical strings, they are many different methods because of the plethora of tying methods as opposed to steel strings which have balls on the end. I found it interesting as there was a disagreement even on what end of the string to install first.

My strings seemed to not be stable for at least a month. I did stretch them after the installation.

[ssynhorst]

These instruments are alive, alive. They are not mere machines. You have to cuddle and caress them, frequently. - Stevo

[baseball]

Thanks again for all your input and I will be checking those other video's (I have already watched quite a few)

Tuned UP to standard 440 last night and played 3 or four pages.... Wasn't going out nearly as fast. Then I tuned down to D# for the rest of my lovely 2 hour playing party and it never moved again...it actually went a tad sharp on G and B.

I already ran into some of those intonation issues. I think 'La Grima' is the only song where I play a chord past the 7th fret and that sounded a little weird...it was not coming up into tune so I throttled it and it sounded better....defintely like a touchy GF. But I literally forgot I was alive for a few moments there just letting it flow...really balanced and pretty