Banish the metronome

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

I'd say that you play to a click track, but that doesn't mean you always have to play to a click track.

Of course not. But to be able to do that kind of job, you'd have to already be able to do it, you wouldn't be able to just sit down and wing it. Meaning you'd have to practice with a metronome.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Perhaps one of the best things about playing to a metronome is having to be simultaneously thinking to in part to something external to the piece being played, and that is an extra challenge to your memory, where your fingers are to go on the fretboard, etc.. May help you cement the music more solidly and to be less likely to have your memory and concentration wander. Probably more important than the part about maintaining a robotic tempo.

I can relate to this as for the most part, I find I get more focused on groove with the metronome on but I am aware of how if the click is set at quarter or eighth notes, you'll probably wind up with that robotic character to your playing. That's what I like about Eric Skye's advice in playing the metronome where it clicks on the 2nd and 4th beat of say a 4/4 measure giving you some "breathing room" to work with. It's good practice I think for developing your internal clock.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

I can relate to this as for the most part, I find I get more focused on groove with the metronome on but I am aware of how if the click is set at quarter or eighth notes, you'll probably wind up with that robotic character to your playing. That's what I like about Eric Skye's advice in playing the metronome where it clicks on the 2nd and 4th beat of say a 4/4 measure giving you some "breathing room" to work with. It's good practice I think for developing your internal clock.

Yes, there can be within a measure (say 4/4) small variations in how long you hold or exactly when you come in on a note (say on the third beat).
I do that frequently in certain pieces. Many times one might want to go beyond a single measure in timing alterations and not come right on beat
one of the next measure. You are dealing with actual lengthier tempo changes. A metronome will not track that.

[jazzereh]

Some great discussion here guys, thanks for chiming in. Part of the reason that I posted the idea about metronomes is the live performance part of time/tempo. With a good drummer [or bass] the band will stay at least close to the original. I play with a couple of guys who seem to feel that you have to be right there all the time. They practice with a metronome, which is great and I do as well, but since we don't need a click track when playing a tune, I have no issues with tempos varying a bit. Yes if you start at 120 and end at 150 that's a problem.

So part of what I was getting at, and has been talked about above, is that issue of being metronomically precise when actually playing. Metronomes are a vital tool for practice but when playing a tune play with feeling and as someone noted above, with listening.

[rick-slo]

Take this test timing and see how you score:

https://www.thelooploft.com/blogs/ry...t-and-find-out

[NormanKliman]

I’m for ‘em, although I think they’re like physical/mental hygiene: will make you better company but best done at home (haha). I practiced with a metronome for a few years when I first got serious about guitar. That ironed out a few wrinkles, but in that sense I think I’ve gained more from slowing down my playing when I’m learning something so that I can count every beat as I play. It’s like when you stumble on a word and you repeat it more carefully to get every syllable right.

They aren’t much fun, are they? But look what Victor Wooten does in this video. It’s a little long but well worth 10 minutes of your time if you haven’t seen it already, especially from 5:12 onward.

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Okay, then consider this. You've been asked to play on a film cue. It's only, say, half a minute long but has to have a very specific duration, and it has some internal sync points, and there's a longish tacet after which your entrance has to be dead on. How do you do it?

I will never EVER be asked to play on a film cue! It will not happen!!!

As I said, metronomes have their uses, but I don't have use for any of their uses. I'm sure if you're a session player of any sort or in certain types of bands or just want to be an extremely technically adept musician, working with a metronome is probably important. For my recreational amateur status and enjoyment, nope...

-Ray

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by raysachs

I will never EVER be asked to play on a film cue! It will not happen!!!

Same here! I will also never be asked to play with the New York Philharmonic, or would I ever have been invited to be part of The Wrecking Crew.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by raysachs

I will never EVER be asked to play on a film cue! It will not happen!!!

As I said, metronomes have their uses, but I don't have use for any of their uses.

I hear you. But please bear in mind that this is an internet forum, not a one-on-one conversation. While I'm responding to you, I'm actually talking to lots of other people, too.

[Su_H.]

I use the metronome when practicing problem areas. The metronome is off when I'm playing a song or a piece.

For a song, I try to stay in tempo throughout.

For a piece, I try to execute dynamics and, from my experience, it's extremely difficult to do if I don't have a strong internalized beat which I don't.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by jazzereh

Some great discussion here guys, thanks for chiming in. Part of the reason that I posted the idea about metronomes is the live performance part of time/tempo. With a good drummer [or bass] the band will stay at least close to the original. I play with a couple of guys who seem to feel that you have to be right there all the time. They practice with a metronome, which is great and I do as well, but since we don't need a click track when playing a tune, I have no issues with tempos varying a bit. Yes if you start at 120 and end at 150 that's a problem.

So part of what I was getting at, and has been talked about above, is that issue of being metronomically precise when actually playing. Metronomes are a vital tool for practice but when playing a tune play with feeling and as someone noted above, with listening.

I am allways fascinated by the insights that scientific study comes up with on how humans generally interact, one study showed that a quartet of trained musicians, where not one is particullarly skilled at maintaining a steady tempo will automatically self callibrate, as a group, to a steady tempo, what happens is that individually they all vary their tempo just not at the same time so then before one player has got off track to the degree that anyone would notice the drifting player then uses the other three to guide them back to the group tempo. In the study achieving this callibrated group tempo was done subconsciously
and no one was actually aware of how they were staying together.

[rllink]

I take lessons and I was not real excited about the metronome. I certainly would not have used one on my own. But once I set my mind to it, it didn't take long to get into it. I think it makes me a better player. I'm actually doing some things that it is very helpful to be aware of how much time I have in a measure before I move on. Without the metronome to give me that measure, I get in it and never get out, if that makes any sense.