Thumb-Picks, “how-to” questions: ???

[gj Michelob]

Dear all finger-style guitarists,

As I explained in my introductory note to my first post last week, I played classical and for the last 4/5 years Flamenco guitar. I am thrilled to resume playing steel strings as I did nearly 40 years ago and then abandoned. I am approaching it with the long natural nails I have used in Flamenco, along with the right hand position that style required of me.

Last night I finally tried a Thumb-pick (inspired by Martin Tallstrom –who also played flamenco for a while). What a difference it makes on steel strings!!

But I have a few questions, which hopefully will lead me towards the correct direction.

I have tried a Dunlop: it is a large and fits nicely against my thumb knuckle.

Problems:
1. Thickness of pick. All thumb-picks I researched on the internet (elderly has a vast assortment) seem to share a common thick gauge (thicker than your typical martin “thick” pick).
Are there any “thin” or “light” thumb-picks?
2. If there are any thin/light thumb-picks would they allow an upstroke (which seems impossible with what I have –or am I not exploiting it correctly)?
3. If using a thumb-pick, how do you balance the sound of your other fingers: i and m and a, by keeping long nails on these?
4. Does the thumb-pick double as a pick, meaning do you occasionally have it play trebles (G , B and E)?
5. Any other information, experience and recommendation you may share to prevent the predictable mistakes one is bound to make when starting to use a thumb-picks?

Thank you all.

[Bikewer]

I think a lot of fingerstyle players have a love-hate relationship with the things.

Back when I started playing, everyone who was a "folkie" played with thumb and fingerpicks. Likely due to one-microphone clubs and no on-guitar amplification for the most part.
If you wanted to be heard you played a big guitar with picks.

So, I did too. However, I got into flatpicking and largely abandoned them. I started eventually playing fingerstyle using the classical-guitar method of shaping the nails so they just brushed the string as you "broke" across same.

Good compromise between tone and durability. No thumbpick.

However... I also build and play cigar-box guitars and many of these incorporate a resonator. I also built a full-sized "dobro" of sorts. I find the thumbpick necessary to bring out the bass tones on these instruments, so I'm back to using one at least some of the time.
The "National" brand picks come in different sizes and gauges. However, for some reason the lighter they are the smaller they are. I find the light-guage ones have too short of a "pick" portion and they tend to catch in the strings.

If there's a way to do upstrokes I never found it.... There are hybrid flatpick/thumbpicks which supposedly allow both... However you are stuck with one position and you can't "articulate" the pick as you can when just using a flatpick.
There is of course "hybrid picking" where you employ a flatpick and the fingers... Very popular amongst country and Nashville studio guys.
I've never liked it.... Can't get an even tone. The flatpick is too loud.

So, I use a heavy-gauge Dunlop thumbpick and fingers on my resonators and none at all when playing fingerstyle on my regular guitars.

[rorymac0]

Originally Posted by gj Michelob

Dear all finger-style guitarists,

As I explained in my introductory note to my first post last week, I played classical and for the last 4/5 years Flamenco guitar. I am thrilled to resume playing steel strings as I did nearly 40 years ago and then abandoned. I am approaching it with the long natural nails I have used in Flamenco, along with the right hand position that style required of me.

Last night I finally tried a Thumb-pick (inspired by Martin Tallstrom –who also played flamenco for a while). What a difference it makes on steel strings!!

But I have a few questions, which hopefully will lead me towards the correct direction.

I have tried a Dunlop: it is a large and fits nicely against my thumb knuckle.

Problems:
1. Thickness of pick. All thumb-picks I researched on the internet (elderly has a vast assortment) seem to share a common thick gauge (thicker than your typical martin “thick” pick).
Are there any “thin” or “light” thumb-picks?
2. If there are any thin/light thumb-picks would they allow an upstroke (which seems impossible with what I have –or am I not exploiting it correctly)?
3. If using a thumb-pick, how do you balance the sound of your other fingers: i and m and a, by keeping long nails on these?
4. Does the thumb-pick double as a pick, meaning do you occasionally have it play trebles (G , B and E)?
5. Any other information, experience and recommendation you may share to prevent the predictable mistakes one is bound to make when starting to use a thumb-picks?

Thank you all.

I've only been at fingerstyle for 11 months now but it's been pretty full on so hope my experience so far is helpful.

Firstly I don't use a thumb pick although I've tried lots and feel that maybe at some point I will and realise that maybe it's for the best .. but maybe not. Having said that the nearest I got to the more natural feeling of the thumb was with a standard dunlop but filing it down something like Martin Tallstroms. There is a pic on his site of his own filed down pick but I can't remember where. His is quite rounded and protrudes maybe 4 or 5 mm from his thumb. I did the same but made it more pointed like a plectrum. You can also sand down the sides so it's more flexible iykwim and then you can use it like a plectrum on the trebles and easily do upstrokes by gripping it with your index finger also.
I can do upstrokes much easier with just my thumb. I've tried the herco pick but found them way too flimsy and not really any advantage.
I don't know what I'd do if I had no nails on my fingers but Tommy Emmanuel has none and just uses his hard as nails fingertips.
Some folks use bits of ping pong balls under their nails to keep them from breaking etc but I just wear protective gloves when I'm building walls and stuff
I think the most players tend to use standard dunlop type thumbpics and if you get to grips with the whole feel of using one there isn't such a big deal about which one to use.
Like I say I'm a bit of a novice though and yet to feel comfortable with one although I know some tunes I play might sound tighter if I did.

[M19]

I use a National medium, filed rounder and roughed up for decreased attack.

1. Thickness of pick. There are thumb-picks which are like regular picks attached to a thumb loop, but I've never tired one.
2. If there are any thin/light thumb-picks would they allow an upstroke? I don't know this. I don't upstroke at all, as it tends to send the pick flying off on an interstellar trajectory.
3. If using a thumb-pick, how do you balance the sound of your other fingers? A learned technique of just being "gentler" with the thumb. It's hard sometimes.
4. Does the thumb-pick double as a pick, meaning do you occasionally have it play trebles (G , B and E)? Yes, but it's best to hold with your index finger too. In strumming, I often use a combination of the pick and my index finger nail on the downstrokes.
5. Any other information, experience and recommendation you may share to prevent the predictable mistakes one is bound to make when starting to use a thumb-picks? Just practice and familiarity, once you found a make/style that you're comfortable with.

[gj Michelob]

Thank you, Bikewer, Rorymac and M19. Your posts are very helpful.

[SimplyLuo]

1. Thickness of pick. There are some light thumbpicks I've seen. I know that the Fred Kelly Slick Picks come in different thicknesses, I have both the heavy and light gauges.
Are there any “thin” or “light” thumb-picks?
2. If there are any thin/light thumb-picks would they allow an upstroke Sure. The upstroke takes a bit of practice. It might help, depending on which thumbpick you are using, to shape the pick yourself. I use a regular Dunlop thumb-pick. Stock, it's way too long, so I grind it down and sand it. The shorter the pick, the easier the upstroke.
3. If using a thumb-pick, how do you balance the sound of your other fingers: i and m and a, by keeping long nails on these?
Not necessarily. As you practice more and more, you'll learn how to control the thumb-pick. Balance will come with practice. Not the most helpful answer, I know..
4. Does the thumb-pick double as a pick, meaning do you occasionally have it play trebles (G , B and E)? Sure, especially if I want a thicker sound out of the trebles, versus my nails.
5. Any other information, experience and recommendation you may share to prevent the predictable mistakes one is bound to make when starting to use a thumb-picks?
Keep your thumb loose, it should never be stiff. Playing with a thumbpick shouldn't be a struggle. Tommy Emmanuel's videos on thumb-pick use also helped me a lot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF9xobsf9hw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2enYdAj9uas <-exercise by Antoine Dufour

[gj Michelob]

Originally Posted by SimplyLuo

1. Thickness of pick. There are some light thumbpicks I've seen. I know that the Fred Kelly Slick Picks come in different thicknesses, I have both the heavy and light gauges.
Are there any “thin” or “light” thumb-picks?
2. If there are any thin/light thumb-picks would they allow an upstroke Sure. The upstroke takes a bit of practice. It might help, depending on which thumbpick you are using, to shape the pick yourself. I use a regular Dunlop thumb-pick. Stock, it's way too long, so I grind it down and sand it. The shorter the pick, the easier the upstroke.
3. If using a thumb-pick, how do you balance the sound of your other fingers: i and m and a, by keeping long nails on these?
Not necessarily. As you practice more and more, you'll learn how to control the thumb-pick. Balance will come with practice. Not the most helpful answer, I know..
4. Does the thumb-pick double as a pick, meaning do you occasionally have it play trebles (G , B and E)? Sure, especially if I want a thicker sound out of the trebles, versus my nails.
5. Any other information, experience and recommendation you may share to prevent the predictable mistakes one is bound to make when starting to use a thumb-picks?
Keep your thumb loose, it should never be stiff. Playing with a thumbpick shouldn't be a struggle. Tommy Emmanuel's videos on thumb-pick use also helped me a lot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF9xobsf9hw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2enYdAj9uas <-exercise by Antoine Dufour

Thank you Jon, I enjoyed the videos you suggested and those on your channel (very nice and elegant style). 'found this as well which i found helpful after following link to yours:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVklC...eature=related

[gj Michelob]

I ordered these Dunlop Herco Thumbpicks: http://www.stringsandbeyond.com/jimduheflthg.html
They have a “thin” gauge (as I was looking for) and apparently double as a “plectrum pick” (so one could engage in some strumming when need be).

I am sure some here may have already tried them, and would appreciate their report along with mine, in due course.

I really appreciate the resources this forum provides. Thank y’all.

[Short Balding G]

Here is older shot of some of the Fred Kelly Slick Pics and Speed pics that I typically use. A dunk in hot water and some shaping to fit my thumb. Dry and let it sit and then change the length with a dremel tool - gives me the tool with the right depth (smaller than they come) and the correct roughness (a bit of roughness gives me a bite).

It takes time to get the sublties of the pic. Our "naked" thumb gives instant feedback and we have to train our thumb to use the pic to provide feedback. A gentle touch is totally possible that yeilds a "naked" thumb sound, and then you can dig in and snap the string like an old bluesman.

I spent time figuring out the new height and placement of my thumb with the pic when I first started using them. My thumb had to be held higher (away from the strings) and it changed how I positioned my right hand. Backing off the hard bass thumbs, when using the pic, was the first change. Huge volume changes are available with the pic.

Best, Eric -

[gj Michelob]

Originally Posted by Short Balding G

Here is older shot of some of the Fred Kelly Slick Pics and Speed pics that I typically use. A dunk in hot water and some shaping to fit my thumb. Dry and let it sit and then change the length with a dremel tool - gives me the tool with the right depth (smaller than they come) and the correct roughness (a bit of roughness gives me a bite).

It takes time to get the sublties of the pic. Our "naked" thumb gives instant feedback and we have to train our thumb to use the pic to provide feedback. A gentle touch is totally possible that yeilds a "naked" thumb sound, and then you can dig in and snap the string like an old bluesman.

I spent time figuring out the new height and placement of my thumb with the pic when I first started using them. My thumb had to be held higher (away from the strings) and it changed how I positioned my right hand. Backing off the hard bass thumbs, when using the pic, was the first change. Huge volume changes are available with the pic.

Best, Eric -

Thnak you, Eric. I am patiently trying to learn but at the same tiem do not want to forget my classical guitar position.
I wonder if one can get used to and maintain both.

[FusionZ06]

I use thumb picks only on certain songs. It is needed in songs with heavy alternate bass line picking. For everything else, I play with my thumb nail.

I like you am classically trained and have been playing for 18 years.