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Old 08-04-2020, 02:14 PM
robkoa robkoa is offline
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Default How to record acoustic guitar audio for noobs - Gear List and Noob Notes

Hi all you cats n' kittens

I recently asked some questions about why my noob audio setup sounded so fantastically terrible... in this thread entitled "Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 + sennheiser 609 e silver awful results muffled and boomy"

I received some awesome pointers, advice, and recommendations.

In this post, I'll summarize my noob findings. I'll provide context on what my situation was, and what I was expecting to solve. Then I will go over the gear I realized I needed, and what I ultimately chose. I'll provide details on what I learned the hard way as a major audiophile NOOB.

I'm hoping to make this useful after having spent some time researching answers, and recommended gear.


Context:
I am a novice/noob who infrequently records himself playing acoustic guitar, for the purpose of publishing video/audio for friends and family to see.
Prior to this post, I setup my Android/iPhone on a table, and recorded myself using the built-in cam/mic.
Friends and family get a kick out of it, and so do I. I also am posting some videos to challenge my younger neices and nephews to do the same so that we can share the learning exprience from a distance (we do not live close together).


I seek to answer:

"What gear does one NEED to record acoustic guitar playing, with a total budget at approx $400-$500"
"What are some tips and tricks to get started quickly?"



General Acoustic Guitar Recording Noob Notes:

To record at home you need a microphone, and some way to record what's coming out of the microphone.
Optionally, you can also add a set of Studio Monitors.

The space in which you plan to record (ie: the room) makes a big difference in the outcome of the sound produced in your recording, regardless of gear.
If your room is echo-y and boomy, your recording will be too.
Acoustic panels can help, or try different rooms, or areas within a room.
General consensus on microphone placement: Do not point it directly at the sound hole of your acoustic guitar. this is the primary position from which mostly BASS tones emerge from your guitar.
Instead, position the mic 8-12 inches away from the 10th fret, directionally pointed at the 12th fret (play around with this, as it can vary between setups)


Gear needed to Record:
1. Microphone + XLR Cable (microphone cable)
2. Audio Interface
3. Computer (devices with internal recording capability not considered in this budget)

Optional Gear used to record:
4. Studio Monitors (optional, but nice to have, for more see below) and/or headphones.



1. MICROPHONES

Microphone List for Noobs is attached to the bottom of this message with prices links and notes.

The sweet-spot for entry level microphones seems to be the $99 mark.
Prices range from this entry level, to some great value high quality $250-$499 then on to astronomically high (many thousands).
Not everyone records with 1 mic. Often people record an instrument with 2 mics (Dual) so that they can achieve a Stereo sound.
To a noob, this just means you can buy 2 mics (paired means they come in a box set, and typically are tuned to each other) but it's not necessary that they be paired, in-fact you can produce stereo output with any 2 mics. You will need one cable, per mic.

NOOB CHOICE:

Audio Technica AT2020 ($99)

Condenser Mic (needs phantom power), They generally have a hotter signal and are more sensitive and as such is considered to be better able to record acoustic guitar
A go-to for youtubers (recording talking voices)
Multiple people use this unit as a pair or single to record acoustic guitar to success.
+1 for using AT2020



2. AUDIO INTERFACE

An audio interface is a device that sits between your microphone and your computer, as well as connects to your Studio Monitors (if you opted to buy them, and I suggest you do).

It has a bunch of dials, and buttons, and inputs and outputs. The key point is: How many microphones can you plug in? And does it support plugging an instrument in directly (such as your electric or acoustic-electric guitar).
It contains a pre-amp, and it's job is to translate the analog signal coming from your mic or instrument, and converting it into a digital sound, which can then be amplified and recorded by your computer.

Audio Interface Noob choice:

Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 - Audio Interface

Multiple people chimed in that this is a decent option, and no real concern for acoustic guitar recording application.
It has two inputs with preamps.
+3 for using this as a solid AI for general listening
The Focusrite interfaces work fine, but they don't have tons of gain in their mic preamps


3. COMPUTER
Assumption is that you have a computer. At some point you need a computer to at least PUBLISH your content! So there is a heavy assumption that you own or can use a computer.

Software:
As a Noob - this was probably the hardest part of 'getting going'.
I spent a few days reading this thread:

And I ultimately chose REAPER after trying a few of them. Reaper seemed intuitive for the NOOB, and the price is not bad at $60.


4. STUDIO MONITORS (from ref link: https://bit.ly/3gwyCpp)

Studio monitors are basically a special set of powered Speakers intended to produce a flat frequency response to playback the audio recording exactly as intended without any kind of coloration to the sound.
Powered speakers are mainly intended to playback the recording in a pleasing way and used more for personal listening. Sometimes powered speakers are “colored” to sound a particular way by design.




I felt like an ultra noob when I was asking the sales associate "What cable do I need to go from the Audio Interface into my home bookshelf speakers?".

Noob Choice:
Sterling MX3 Black - Studio Monitor
https://bit.ly/3ibOw9h

To do home recording on a budget, you don't necessarily NEED monitors.
I ended up with these in my lap, and I have to say, I'm impressed (noob impressed).
One can record "silently". A decent set of (preferably) over the ear headphones or in ear headphones will work, and you can plug them directly into the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2
This noob did use the Monitors and I am happy with purchase because I can plug headphones into the Studio Monitor Speakers, as well as seamlessly use these speakers for a much-improved audio experience over my laptop speakers.
They work wonderfully with the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2.
You will need to buy a cable to go between the back of the Scarlett 2i2 and the Studio Monitors.
Noted: You don't require monitors to record, but once you've recorded, you need some quality way to listen to what you recorded, preferably on multiple audio output devices (headphones, speakers etc).
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Old 08-04-2020, 02:15 PM
robkoa robkoa is offline
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My Gear List is now:

1. Audio Technica AT2020 (MICROPHONE) + XLR Cable (https://bit.ly/2BYct4p)
2. Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (AUDIO INTERFACE) comes with USB cable only. (https://bit.ly/3gtvOJJ)
3. Laptop loaded with REAPER software (https://www.reaper.fm/)
4. Sterling MX3 Black - Studio Monitor (https://bit.ly/3ibOw9h)
5. Cable between AI->Studio Monitors
If you get Studio Monitors, you'll need this cable between the AI above, and the Studio monitors
1/4" TRS Stereo Cable $25 12ft - (There is a RED, RIGHT and WHITE LEFT on each end)
example: https://bhpho.to/3gvKmsd

6. Mic Stand/Boom Arm
You need some way to hold your mic. You can simply buy a mic stand from a local shop.
Rode PSA1 $99
https://bit.ly/3k5CdwO
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Old 08-04-2020, 02:16 PM
robkoa robkoa is offline
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Additional Rundown of Microphones suggested/recommended with notes copied from my thread above (and other websites/anecdotes)



AKG P170 - $99 - https://bit.ly/2EREHyP
will get you consistently good results
requires phantom power
Professional small-diaphragm, true condenser cardioid microphone, lists Acoustic Guitar recording among it's stated applications


iRig2 $59-$99 - https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irig2/
only for iOS devices
The iRig Acoustic Stage has a quick "auto EQ" feature, sounds decent, doesn't require an second mic stand or arm, and the two mics will let you get the best placement for your vocals, which is what listeners care about most anyway.


Sterling ST131 - $99 - https://bit.ly/2DwPXzW
"Optimized to record the character and detail of acoustic guitars"


Blue Ember - $99 - https://bit.ly/33u5WcW
Regarded for use in recording acoustic guitar


SE Electronics sE7 - $99 (or $199 for pair) - https://bit.ly/3gwz1YX
Small-diaphragm Condenser
Highly regarded as a good option for acoustic guitar recording

Sure SM57 $99 - https://bit.ly/3i8NBGm
Variety of opinions, for and against using this for acoustic guitar recording
Sound will be more "colored" than a if using a condenser mic.
Workhorse Dynamic Mic - very widely used for stage... The word 'acoustic' does not appear in the description of this product.
+3 Not highly regarded for acoustic guitar usage.

Sennheiser e 609 silver $109.95 - https://bit.ly/3ib1pAu
This is a dynamic mic (no need for phantom power), but as such the gain needs to be cranked up on the AI.
This mic is designed to literally lay right on a guitar cab to mic it. (people hang them over the amp).
The E609 is often used hung by a mic cord draped over the top of a loud electric guitar amp.
This is not suggested for general acousitc guitar recording. (It needs to be really close to the source of sound). As to the legitimate use of this mic for micing an amp, this actually is regarded very highly.
It can tolerate a tremendously loud signal (without distorting or becoming damaged).
A few people suggest that this mic could work for this application, but room/space considerations may come into play.
+1 on idea that this is not a noob friendly device for this application
+1 that this is highly regarded as a cab or amp mic.


Sterling Audio SL230MP $149 (for 2) - https://bit.ly/2XqcRjK
Outstanding video by Pete Thorn demonstrating and reviewing:
Condenser Mics, includes case, shockmounts and windscreens.
Cardioid pickup pattern
Regarded for acoustic guitar recording use (or live performance) on a budget.
+3 on comments about using headphones vs monitors


Audio-Tecnica AT2035 ($149) - https://bit.ly/39VPCmn
Audio-Technica AT2035 Large-diaphragm Condenser Microphone
No actual mention of specifically being geared toward acoustic guitars, but anectodes of really great results for this application.
Multiple people use this for acousit guita recording
+1 for using AT2035 as a more expensive alternative to other $99 mics.


Rode NT5 $219 ($429 for matched pair) - https://bit.ly/2DjMCVc
+1 for using Rode NT5


SE Electronics sE8 $250 ($499 for a pair) - https://bit.ly/3kf7RYL
gets nice reviews - more money but apparently highly regarded mic (great value for the money)
+2 on SE8


Neumann KSM105 $699 - https://bit.ly/3ib1Gn0
Highly regarded professional microphone
German engineering
Excellent transparency for vocals/speech
Requires phantom power, extremely expensive compared to $99 range.
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Old 08-04-2020, 04:20 PM
DCCougar DCCougar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robkoa View Post
...Audio Interface Noob choice:

Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 - Audio Interface
That's what I use. With my synth, I plug right into the Scarlett (and use headphones). In fact, I've done that with a guitar with an undersaddle pickup as well - no mic. I don't think it came out that bad (see e-journey). I use cubase elements for multitracking, which I got for $80 on SDOTD.

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Old 08-04-2020, 04:55 PM
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I really think you have to have a good set of tracking headphones to record acoustic guitar.

Even if you don't keep them on for recording the track, you should use them to help set up (test, listen, repeat) mic position and gain settings to make sure you are getting a clean signal with the right balance of sound from the guitar. Also, it helps you "hear what the mic hears" and you may notice external/environmental noises picked up by the mic that you may subconsciously filter out when listening to your playing in the open air.

Sony MDR-7506 and Sennheiser HD 280 Pro are a couple of popular ones that I have. (Well, technically I have the MDR-V6 pair but they are about the same - mine are probably 25+ years old and MIJ.) Personally, I think the Sonys are a better pair for listening, but the pads are terrible and need routine replacement. Not a fan of the Senns for general listening, but many like them. The ear pads hold up better, but the top pad on mine had to be replaced, oddly enough. And, there are lots of others that are perfectly serviceable for a bit less.
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Old 08-05-2020, 10:05 AM
robkoa robkoa is offline
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Great points on tracking headphones.
And great point... the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 does have an output jack 1/4" for headphones.

Could someone clarify:
Is there any difference between the audio coming out of the Focusrite's Headphones Jack - vs the audio coming out of the Studio Monitors?

If not... In that case - is the only added benefit of the Studio Monitors is that you can hear without headphones?
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Old 08-05-2020, 10:23 AM
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I use 2 AT2035 to record. I have a Rode NT5, but I prefer the ldc warmth.
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Old 08-05-2020, 10:44 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robkoa View Post
Could someone clarify:
Is there any difference between the audio coming out of the Focusrite's Headphones Jack - vs the audio coming out of the Studio Monitors?

If not... In that case - is the only added benefit of the Studio Monitors is that you can hear without headphones?
Hard to say without seeing the speaker's schematic, but it probably DOES affect the sound.

I would heartily recommend that as you progress, you relegate these speakers to be used for listening to computer audio, but not for mixing. At 20 watts, they are very underpowered NOTE: MF and GC pages says 20 watts, the mfr page says 40 watts, but 3" speakers just don't have much 'push' to them.
With unbalanced TRS input, they are susceptible to RF noise, and although the mfr gives a 55Hz low end in their specs, I doubt that's a real number - what is the dB fall out at that frequency? Most 3" speakers start losing low end much higher. Although you might think that any speaker that goes down to 85Hz should be fine for a guitar (low E string), there are in fact low harmonics on an acoustic - you can see them on a spectrum analysis when recorded with a good mic.
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Old 08-05-2020, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robkoa View Post
Great points on tracking headphones.
And great point... the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 does have an output jack 1/4" for headphones.

Could someone clarify:
Is there any difference between the audio coming out of the Focusrite's Headphones Jack - vs the audio coming out of the Studio Monitors?

If not... In that case - is the only added benefit of the Studio Monitors is that you can hear without headphones?
I have not seen the block diagram of that interface, but it's generally safe to assume that the analog signal that goes to both the line and headphone out went through the D/A converter chip in the interface, maybe at the same time. But, because there are two level controls, and different impedance expectations of those outputs, there's probably a little bit different circuitry, so would the match up exactly on a scope, for instance? Maybe not.

The big difference is that with monitor speakers, you get a more natural stereo field, assuming they are set up properly, and you are seated correctly. That also means that both ears are hearing something from both speakers. That does not happen with headphones, and the resulting decisions you might make in a mix can be affected by that.

Also, as noted, you are not getting enough of the low frequencies in those speakers to really let you hear what has been recorded of a guitar, which is technically a bass instrument. If nothing else, I'd want headphones to sanity check mix decisions I was making regarding EQ, if it was based on 3" speakers.

P.S. (edit) and just to clarify, you have asked if the headphone jack output is equivalent to speaker output, and that really is not anything that could be answered, as one is electrical energy and the other physical, audio wave energy.
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Old 08-05-2020, 08:56 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robkoa View Post
Great points on tracking headphones.
And great point... the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 does have an output jack 1/4" for headphones.

Could someone clarify:
Is there any difference between the audio coming out of the Focusrite's Headphones Jack - vs the audio coming out of the Studio Monitors?

If not... In that case - is the only added benefit of the Studio Monitors is that you can hear without headphones?
As somebody has already answered, how you hear and experience the stereo image is different with speakers vs. headphones, so the "pro" standard is to always mix and master on high-quality speakers. Of course, in the commercial worlds they also may check how things sound on mundane speakers, mono, and I'd assume today on earbuds like so much music is consumed on. One doesn't have to do this yourself for your home recording, and I doubt every released recording has had such a range of playback devices auditioned these days. Good mixing and mastering engineers know how their monitors "transfer" from experience to other listening devices and so they already know what to aim for.

At the lower end of things cost-wise a $100 or $150 set of headphones can give a more complete frequency-range sound. In general you can't evaluate what you can't hear, so trying to mix low bass on system that can't reproduce it is flying blind. No pro will recommend you mix or do a final "master" on headphones, but it may be better in some situations, including yours.* And as has also been pointed out, they may help you "hear what your mics are hearing" before you push record. The Sony 7506 model is a common inexpensive set of headphones that I've seen used in lot of informal audio production. I kind of like the Sennheiser 280 headphone when tracking vocals because it will not leak any sound from the playback tracks into even the closest, most sensitive mic.


*In addition to the limitations of lower-cost speakers, I'll once again will return to the factor of the recording/mixing space. This is not pro-advice you're getting from me, and you (and anyone else reading this too) should be skeptical and weigh it against people who do better quality work. I (personally, at my lower level of knowledge and experience) wonder if someone at the beginning of things, looking to get the best results at a lower investment in time and resources, shouldn't consider eliminating some of the effect of their imperfect home mixing space by using headphones instead of monitors--or if to state what would be in agreement with the sage advice I've heard that the room (with proper treatment) is the thing of primary importance: use headphones until you can afford the effort/cost to treat the room.
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Old 08-06-2020, 12:15 PM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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Originally Posted by FrankHudson View Post
*In addition to the limitations of lower-cost speakers, I'll once again will return to the factor of the recording/mixing space. This is not pro-advice you're getting from me, and you (and anyone else reading this too) should be skeptical and weigh it against people who do better quality work. I (personally, at my lower level of knowledge and experience) wonder if someone at the beginning of things, looking to get the best results at a lower investment in time and resources, shouldn't consider eliminating some of the effect of their imperfect home mixing space by using headphones instead of monitors--or if to state what would be in agreement with the sage advice I've heard that the room (with proper treatment) is the thing of primary importance: use headphones until you can afford the effort/cost to treat the room.
Yes, using headphones is sometimes a better solution for mixing than inexpensive speakers in an imperfect room - however, acoustic treatment can also make a world of difference when tracking - all those unwanted reflections and resonances can be recorded, making it even more difficult to get a good mix.
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Old 08-10-2020, 03:31 PM
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Thanks this is a lot of good info and exactly some of the stuff that I am currently looking into. I hit a minor hiccup in that my 5 year old MacBook Air only has 4GB of memory and so is not best suited to recording. I was planning to start with the Scarlett 2i2 and a pair of AT2020s... how are these working for you so far? Also if you don’t mind my asking what machine are you running everything off of?
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Old 08-19-2020, 07:54 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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It seems like I'm always the one who jumps into these threads and says, "Hey, it's the room."

But hey, it's the room.

If you have a good-sounding space and your guitar and your hands are doing their jobs, you can make a good recording on almost anything.

A couple caveats, though. 1. It takes some experience to know a good-sounding space when you hear it, and/or to turn a potentially workable room into a good one. Which sometimes calls for spousal acquiescence. And 2., a good space for stereo-miked acoustic single-guitar recordings (most of the folks here) isn't necessarily the same as a good space for multitrack recordings (folks like me).
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Old 08-19-2020, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
It seems like I'm always the one who jumps into these threads and says, "Hey, it's the room."

But hey, it's the room.

If you have a good-sounding space and your guitar and your hands are doing their jobs, you can make a good recording on almost anything.

A couple caveats, though. 1. It takes some experience to know a good-sounding space when you hear it, and/or to turn a potentially workable room into a good one. Which sometimes calls for spousal acquiescence. And 2., a good space for stereo-miked acoustic single-guitar recordings (most of the folks here) isn't necessarily the same as a good space for multitrack recordings (folks like me).
I’m with Brent. For me and in order of importance, at least when mics and acoustic instruments are involved, and the issue is the best sonic result:

1) Talent and Experience
2) Room
3) Instrument

The rest just falls into a kinda “take your pick” stew unless of course you really do have a superior room. If that’s the case it’d be followed by:

4) Mics
5) Monitors
6) Pre-Amps/Interface

As I always and in these discussions about the room I certainly understand it’s often not practical or economical for many of us to do lots of heavy room design but it is in the end a major contributor to a good recording. For me if I was preparing a budget for a home recording environment (as non-glamorous as it is) I’d at least put some thought into budgeting for getting the room the best as can be.

Last edited by Joseph Hanna; 08-19-2020 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 08-19-2020, 10:03 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna View Post
For me if I was preparing a budget for a home recording environment (as non-glamorous as it is) I’d at least put some thought into budgeting for getting the room the best as can be.
It's kinda like spending on a repipe for your house. It's not 'toys' and your friends won't be impressed (if your friends aren't me and Mr. Hanna) but if you need it you need it.
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