Issue with shipping (scam??)

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by cheer tunes

I am only allowed to ship to the buyer's registered PayPal address, so I don't think I can ship to the UPS or FedEx office and have them hold it.

Correct...you just need to ship it USPS. It will cost more, but I would go with USPS Priority Mail over their USPS Retail Ground...which is just Parcel Post with a fancy name. The quicker the shipping method, the less time and chance for something to go awry.

Don't be penny wise and pound foolish...spend the money for Priority Mail.


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[Zigeuner]

If you have been paid on PayPal Friends and family, (F&F) there are no PayPal fees as you no doubt know. There are also no standard safeguards as offered by PayPal.

That said, I don't think that it's wise to ship to a P.O. box. If there is no certified address with PayPal, I'm thinking that there's a problem already.

As others mention, the prospective buyer could pretend that he/she never received the instrument and ask for a refund, although, on F&F that's a problem for him/her as well since PayPal won't assist on F&F.

Rule #1, Never ship to a P.O. Box!

F&F is a courtesy for your friends or your family - that is, for people that you know and trust. If you don't know the person, the transaction is risky, although the buyer wouldn't be able to get a refund under the rules.

All that said, I recently bought a guitar using F & F and it worked out nicely. The seller was a member of a group that I belong to and I also communicated with him extensively regarding the condition of the instrument. I also had his address and verified where the funds were going to.

JMHO, YMMV.

[RP]

Originally Posted by cheer tunes

Buyer paid me via PayPal Goods & Services. His address registered with PP is a PO Box...

Originally Posted by Zigeuner

If you have been paid on PayPal Friends and family, (F&F) there are no PayPal fees as you no doubt know. There are also no standard safeguards as offered by PayPal.

That said, I don't think that it's wise to ship to a P.O. box. If there is no certified address with PayPal, I'm thinking that there's a problem already.

Hey Zig, did you happen to read the OP or were you just commenting in general???

[kkrell]

There is no problem if the shipment can be made by USPS. The Post Office will put a card in the P.O. Box to notify the box owner to come to the pickup counter. If a signature is required, it happens there.

The only issue would be if the package cannot be shipped by that method, and the seller can only use UPS or FedEx. In which case a street address will be required (unless there are exceptions regarding rural routes). If a street address is available, then the buyer has to be refunded, and change their shipping address in PayPal & re-pay. PayPal may penalize the seller by not refunding the original fees collected. You might be able to work that out with PayPal customer service. For one thing, they will know if there is an alternate address in the buyer's account. The buyer may have the P.O. Box as their usual preference. That is, in fact, how my PayPal account is setup. I have to remember to select the address I want a particular purchase to go to. For instance, in hot weather, or not at home, I have flutes sent to the P.O. Box & can pick up at my convenience.

[Zigeuner]

Originally Posted by RP

Hey Zig, did you happen to read the OP or were you just commenting in general???

My bad. I didn't recognize goods and services.

I hope it works for the OP here.

[RRuskin]

Is the buyer's address "confirmed" by PayPal? If so, it's legit. If this isn't the buyer's address, it's probably bogus.

[Shaneh]

There is risk with the good and services if they dispute it. I would take lots of pics. Of the guitar, going in the box, at the post office with the label of the post office worker taking the box. Then you have lots of proof of shipping it.

[RP]

Originally Posted by RRuskin

Is the buyer's address "confirmed" by PayPal? If so, it's legit. If this isn't the buyer's address, it's probably bogus.

Originally Posted by cheer tunes

Buyer paid me via PayPal Goods & Services. His address registered with PP is a PO Box...

Yes, it seems to be...

[frances50]

I have a post office box and have had it for well over two decades. I live on a dirt road and in the day, had several heated verbal discussions years ago with the rural USPS carrier over placement of my mail box. I decided to end the problem and I have a post office mail box in town that I check twice a week. My problem lately is that I don't receive any packages from Amazon at my mail box. Tracking shows them as delivered but I never receive any notice in my box and when I place an inquiry, I get "it was delivered" from the postal employee. I have to have the package resent to my work address. So, I'm not sure where the problem lies but I don't rely on the USPS to deliver to my post office box. Very inefficient way of doing business. Not sure I would ever trust them to deliver a guitar.

[BGS]

As someone who unfortunately deals with PayPal nearly every day, the issue here isn't the PO Box, it's the PayPal payment itself. Especially if it was funded with a credit card. That gives the buyer two ways to scam you - a PP claim, and/or a claim with the credit card.

So basically, there are lots of different things the buyer could be trying here - stolen credit card, having the guitar redirected to a new address, etc. More than likely, it's a stolen PP or credit card account, and they are trying to get the guitar before the real owner of the account is aware. You might try finding them on FaceBook or other social media (Linked In?) or just with Google searches, and reaching out to make sure it's really them. Have them send a pic holding their DL next to their face. If they're legit, they shouldn't have a problem with it.

But it could also be a real buyer who just happens to have a PO Box. If you're wanting to dot/cross all your I's and T's as much as possible:

1) If the address is "unconfirmed" I'd refund the payment and wouldn't ship it at all. Keep in mind that PayPal no longer refunds the fees, so you will be on the hook for those unless the buyer doesn't mind absorbing those.
2) Ship to the confirmed address via USPS Priority with Restricted Delivery - that's the most guaranteed way to get a signature, short of Registered Mail. It will cost $6 or $7 extra but it's worth it.
3) Write "DO NOT REDIRECT - RTS" with a big sharpie next to the label where you can't miss it.
4) Hope and pray!

[Zigeuner]

Originally Posted by BGS

As someone who unfortunately deals with PayPal nearly every day, the issue here isn't the PO Box, it's the PayPal payment itself. Especially if it was funded with a credit card. That gives the buyer two ways to scam you - a PP claim, and/or a claim with the credit card.

So basically, there are lots of different things the buyer could be trying here - stolen credit card, having the guitar redirected to a new address, etc. More than likely, it's a stolen PP or credit card account, and they are trying to get the guitar before the real owner of the account is aware. You might try finding them on FaceBook or other social media (Linked In?) or just with Google searches, and reaching out to make sure it's really them. Have them send a pic holding their DL next to their face. If they're legit, they shouldn't have a problem with it.

But it could also be a real buyer who just happens to have a PO Box. If you're wanting to dot/cross all your I's and T's as much as possible:

1) If the address is "unconfirmed" I'd refund the payment and wouldn't ship it at all. Keep in mind that PayPal no longer refunds the fees, so you will be on the hook for those unless the buyer doesn't mind absorbing those.
2) Ship to the confirmed address via USPS Priority with Restricted Delivery - that's the most guaranteed way to get a signature, short of Registered Mail. It will cost $6 or $7 extra but it's worth it.
3) Write "DO NOT REDIRECT - RTS" with a big sharpie next to the label where you can't miss it.
4) Hope and pray!

This is excellent advice! All that said, I'd never ship a guitar to a P.O. Box.

[cheer tunes]

Thanks for the insights Jesse and everyone

Originally Posted by BGS

As someone who unfortunately deals with PayPal nearly every day, the issue here isn't the PO Box, it's the PayPal payment itself. Especially if it was funded with a credit card. That gives the buyer two ways to scam you - a PP claim, and/or a claim with the credit card.

So basically, there are lots of different things the buyer could be trying here - stolen credit card, having the guitar redirected to a new address, etc. More than likely, it's a stolen PP or credit card account, and they are trying to get the guitar before the real owner of the account is aware. You might try finding them on FaceBook or other social media (Linked In?) or just with Google searches, and reaching out to make sure it's really them. Have them send a pic holding their DL next to their face. If they're legit, they shouldn't have a problem with it.

But it could also be a real buyer who just happens to have a PO Box. If you're wanting to dot/cross all your I's and T's as much as possible:

1) If the address is "unconfirmed" I'd refund the payment and wouldn't ship it at all. Keep in mind that PayPal no longer refunds the fees, so you will be on the hook for those unless the buyer doesn't mind absorbing those.
2) Ship to the confirmed address via USPS Priority with Restricted Delivery - that's the most guaranteed way to get a signature, short of Registered Mail. It will cost $6 or $7 extra but it's worth it.
3) Write "DO NOT REDIRECT - RTS" with a big sharpie next to the label where you can't miss it.
4) Hope and pray!

[cheer tunes]

Hi, I refunded the full amount and it appears that the buyer received his original payment less the PP seller fee back. ~ This is in line with what you said about PP not refunding seller fees ~.

This feels wrong, why wouldn't they refund 100% of what the buyer originall paid back to the buyer? It was their platform that supported a single address (in this case a PO box) to be linked to the buyer making it impossible for me to ship UPS or FedEx. Will PayPal refund the seller fee if challenged?

This is a learning experience!

Originally Posted by cheer tunes

Thanks for the insights Jesse and everyone

[loco gringo]

Originally Posted by cheer tunes

Hi, I refunded the full amount and it appears that the buyer received his original payment less the PP seller fee back. ~ This is in line with what you said about PP not refunding seller fees ~.

This feels wrong, why wouldn't they refund 100% of what the buyer originall paid back to the buyer? It was their platform that supported a single address (in this case a PO box) to be linked to the buyer making it impossible for me to ship UPS or FedEx. Will PayPal refund the seller fee if challenged?

This is a learning experience!

They won't. If they confirmed the address, it is probably legit. Doesn't mean someone besides the account owner isn't using it, or that the account owner isn't trying to pull something. They aren't involved in buying and selling like ebay or Reverb. You can't buy goods on Paypal's website. They are a platform for money changing hands. They handle a financial transaction and they get a fee. They handled a transaction and they got a fee. There was a cost to them to do it.

I heard they now charge a fee for Friends and Family. If I was them, I would've have done it all along. They are still handling a transaction. They have a cost associated with it. Also, it helps cut down on people paying for goods with Friends and Family when it isn't Friends and Family. I used to be ok with that, but then I decided it was dishonest and quit doing it. There is no free lunch.

In a lot of instances, there may be better ways to handle the financials of a transaction then PayPal.

[BGS]

Originally Posted by cheer tunes

Hi, I refunded the full amount and it appears that the buyer received his original payment less the PP seller fee back. ~ This is in line with what you said about PP not refunding seller fees ~.

This feels wrong, why wouldn't they refund 100% of what the buyer originall paid back to the buyer? It was their platform that supported a single address (in this case a PO box) to be linked to the buyer making it impossible for me to ship UPS or FedEx. Will PayPal refund the seller fee if challenged?

This is a learning experience!

No, they won't refund that fee. Most of the card processing services have started doing this - PayPal, Shopify, etc. At this point, Square still refunds the fees, but I'm sure that will change eventually too.