guitar and vocals

[moon]

I think I (mostly) agree with Ty about walking on past the rows of cheap gear. The acoustic guitar is quite a hard instrument to record and any defects in the recording chain show up very quickly. I think that's down to the "thin" sound of strings (particularly metal strings). If you lose or alter anything at all it upsets the fragile balance of the sound. Most cheap mics just aren't up to the job.

However, I don't quite agree that you have to jump in at the $700 price point. On a tight budget, the Zoom Hx units are great value and the portability is nice. I think this is a pretty decent sound for such an inexpensive piece of gear.

My own search for the cheapest acoustic guitar mic actually worth buying led me to the (slightly over-budget) ADK A6 and Oktava Mk012. Here's a sample of the A6 from dream guitars.

A decent mic will also need a decent pre. I think the best way to do this is start off with a high quality interface such as Apogee Duet, RME Babyface, or Sound Devices Usbpre2. None of these are cheap exactly but they are great value considering the audio quality you get.

For separate pres on a limited budget, I'd probably be thinking about a DMP3 or better still a DIY kit from FiveFish. The DMP3 actually holds up pretty well in blind tests against expensive $1,000+ gear. The FiveFish does sound a little bit more solid though, at least to my ears.

I'm not clear what kind of sound you're looking for but I don't think it actually matters much at this stage. IMO the first thing to learn is how to capture audio as accurately as possible, as close to the live performance as you can get. This is a kind of sanity check which will make you work through your recording chain from mic to monitoring gear replacing any weak links which aren't up to the task - some room treatment will probably be on the to do list as well. When you get all that right, you'll probably find you don't need to tweak anything. If not, at least you'll have a solid base to work on.

[ferg]

I've found the MXL Mics to be great values. My personal favorite, particularly if you don't have a preamp outside of your interface is the MXL 960, which is a tube condenser. It goes around $200. It sounds great stock, but if you replace the tube with something else (I put a Mullard in mine), it way outperforms that price point, and the tubes can be had for < $30 on eBay.

[Sage97]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

It's very common for people to come to this forum with a request for information about what mic they should get for a given budget only to find a mic with the properties they want doesn't exist at that price point. I've given up trying to make their price point because it usually doesn't exist without a significant compromise.

If I know a mic that meets the price point, GREAT! However, their price limit is often unrealistic. I'd much rather steer them toward a mic that they'll ultimately be happy with than to submit to their price trap and have them at some point realize that they bought the "wrong mic" based on my say so.

::"That Ty Ford told me this was a good mic and it just isn't. He sucks!::"

Here's the thing. If you're buying a mic, you're probably expecting to use it for a long time. It's better to corral your instant gratification and save a little more money to buy a mic that'll serve you better over the long haul.

I realize I'm not making any friends with the makers of cheap condenser mics using trigger point pricing to get you to open your wallet, but I can take the heat.

Regards,

Ty Ford

All I said was the AT4040 is closer to their budget. They can try that and see if they like it or anything else within that price point. If so great! If not, then they can make their own decisions about expectations and budgets.

[Ty Ford]

Herb, you said, "For many, the choice is either an inexpensive microphone or no microphone for years to come." I think that's one wacky hyperbole
Specifically, I'm talking about something like at AT4050. Looks like $699 new. Yes, it's 3.5 times more expensive than a $200 mic. Or $500 more. Why? Because you really get you money's worth with it. It's solid gear and it has 3 patterns, each of which can be used differently to capture voice and acoustic guitar.

I doubt that anyone will have to wait "for years to come" to afford it.
Regards,

Ty Ford

[ferg]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

$500 more.

I doubt that anyone will have to wait "for years to come" to afford it. Your just not makin' sense to me.

I think there are lots of people who would take many months to cobble together $500 dollars of disposable cash...especially these days.

I know that my music-gear budget (instruments, live gear and recording gear) must come from one of the following places: gigs, CD sales, money made using my gear (such as running sound for events) or from the actual sale of my current gear. There are certainly times when selling something isn't an option, and, frankly, my income from the other is pretty thin these days as well, and sometimes I don't have the luxury of using that little bit of income for music purchases as other of life's needs require it.

[Ty Ford]

Ferg, Bob,

How many guitars do you own?

Regards,

Ty Ford

[ferg]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Ferg, Bob,

How many guitars do you own?

Regards,

Ty Ford

I have 4 guitars, 1 of which is for sale. My remaining three include 2 acoustics - one is my main gigging/recording acoustic and one that is something of an heirloom and 1 electric - which I use primarily for recording projects.

If it matters, I'm not "allowed" to sell non-gigging acoustic, otherwise, I probably would and keep just the 2 that I truly need and use.

[Ty Ford]

Well there's your stash for a decent mic or three

We all have to make choices.

Regards,

Ty

[ferg]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Well there's your stash for a decent mic or three

We all have to make choices.

Regards,

Ty

I'm not in the market for a microphone. If I was, selling off my guitars would at least partially negate my need for a microphone in the first place. My need to hold onto them for other purposes would be the reason why I might opt for a cheaper mic. They're more critical to what I'm doing now than having a $700 mic vs a $200 mic would be.

[flagstaffcharli]

Hi

I have an AKG 414. I Love it on my voice and on acoustic guitar. It's an expensive mic, but... AKG makes a 214. Eric Skye used one on his guitar when he was here for a house concert, and it really seems to be a fine quality mic. I haven't used one myself, but I'd suggest auditioning one. It is above your price range - though you might find one closer to your range if you're willing to go find one on eBay or CL. However, if you find you like it, you might have a keeper that you won't ever want to upgrade.

If you listen on my MySpace page (link at bottom) to the tune "Election Night" you can hear the 414 at work on my voice. I think its a similar mic, but the 414 has some different pattern options. (The guitar was recorded using a small diaphragm mic, but the performance was live in my little studio room, one take, with my primitive recording skills at the helm.) I'd be happy to send you an uncompressed WAV via email if you want a better quality example. Still, you might consider auditioning the 214 mic. Or at least ask Eric his opinion here - FWIW I think he said he liked it on his guitar more than the 414.

My experience with gear over the years is this: I spend a little more than I think I can spend. That way I'm not losing money when I am dissatisfied and need to upgrade later.

Since preamps came up... I also am a huge fan of FMR Audio's Really Nice Pre. It's two channels for a decent price - something else for which to save money. It isn't a John Hardy or other super expensive professional preamp, but it certainly isn't a lofi piece of consumer gear, and it does very, very well for the voice/guitar combo - and again it is what you hear on the "Election Night" track....

Best luck!

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by ferg

My need to hold onto them for other purposes would be the reason why I might opt for a cheaper mic. They're more critical to what I'm doing now than having a $700 mic vs a $200 mic would be.

Like I said, we all have to make choices.

Regards,

Ty Ford