New Microphone day - Avantone CK1 SDC

achase4u · #1 10-08-2011, 01:38 PM

150 bucks - three capsules, omni, cardiod, hypercardiod.

I think folks like me in the budget world are kind of under the impression that ribbons=dark/warm, dynamics=middle of the road and condensers=bright. My at2020 has a semi-large diaphragm and is quite bright to me, with not much low end. This Avantone with its cardiod capsule is actually quite warm. Or maybe just neutral. I cant decide. At first against my bright at2020, it sounded like a blanket was on it. The frequency chart shows somewhat flat - actually slightly under 0db until 400hz, then a slight rise from 500-900hz,back down to 0 db, then a dip just a db or two down from 5-7khz - then rise up to 10 about plus 2 db and then leveling out.

I would think with that response it wouldnt be blanketed sounding, but listening to my guitar without monitoring, I found the recording to be very realistic and close to what I was hearing in the room EQ wise.

I guess I like the sparkle of a rise in the higher frequencies on solo acoustic - but this mic is quite nice. Im starting to get used to its sound now...

PLUS - it is the most sensitive mic to off axis and distance that I have. I think more than my sm57 - or about the same...

I will post clips soon.

Now - that being said, the EQ is quite different for the omni and hypercardiod patterns. They are both brighter...

sdelsolray · #2 10-08-2011, 01:49 PM

Avantone mics generally are excellent mics for the price. I particularly like the CV28 which is a mid sized diaphragm tube mic, similar to the discontinued Groove Tubes GT44.

achase4u · #3 10-08-2011, 02:28 PM

Thats very interesting that its like the GT. I tried a GT Velo 8 ribbon and LOVED it. Still love my fathead as well. I had a Shinybox for a while that was also unique. I let it go though as I needed some $$$.

Heres some sounds of the ck1 by itself with cardiod capsule

Cardiod acoustic guitar ck1 demo

My at 2020 is ok, very bright medium sized condenser. Id really like a c214 or at4047, but maybe Avantone has a decent large diaphragm?

rick-slo · #4 10-08-2011, 06:17 PM

Not bad at all.

Bob Womack · #5 10-08-2011, 07:41 PM

I think.... think... that the CK-1 is a knock-off of the venerable AKG C451E. Why? The removable cardioid capsule of the AKG C451E is designated... wait for it... the CK-1. As such, there would be no surprise that people would love it - the AKG C451E was probably used on more guitar recordings than any other mic between 1970 and 1990. The flat midrange response with the slight upper end tilt gives amazing articulation for fingerstyle and is perfect for recording strumming with a combo.

I've used C451Es in the studio for guitars for thirty years and bought a pair of the newer C451bs recently for home use. At our studio, we own three C451s and ten 460s. The 460 is a later version without the high end tilt and with a faster slew rate. Frankly, I prefer the 451s for guitar.

Bob

achase4u · #6 10-08-2011, 08:01 PM

Thanks for the listens!

By the way - my recording went into an EMU 0404 usb into reaper.

I kind of prefer my m-audio dmp3 but its kinda attached to my desktop PC which is too loud to record acoustic guitar around.

Electric is no trouble...

achase4u · #7 10-08-2011, 08:03 PM

Thats fascinating about the 451! I didnt know that. I will search for some recordings of it.

It still cant be as good though, right? I am considering having Michael Joly mod it for me - but Im not sure at that point if its more money into the mic than its worth in the end...

Here's some drums recorded with the ck1 as an overhead.

http://www.box.net/shared/8zg0njkin5o206kod7u1

Bob Womack · #8 10-09-2011, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by achase4u

Thats fascinating about the 451! I didnt know that. I will search for some recordings of it.

It still cant be as good though, right? I am considering having Michael Joly mod it for me - but Im not sure at that point if its more money into the mic than its worth in the end...

What is happening in the field is that Chinese technology companies are reverse engineering classic mics and offering their versions to American companies to market. As such, the only quality limitations are how good a job the company did reverse engineering the mic and how high the standards of the company are at fabrication. I would be willing to bet that Avantone has reproduced the hand-wired AKG c451 preamp with surface-mount technology for lower expense and better reliability.

Bob

Ty Ford · #9 10-09-2011, 08:28 AM

This is a company that imports Chinese mics, right?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Bob Womack · #10 10-09-2011, 12:13 PM

Avantone does a couple of things: they offer the mics and they have also taken up the Auratone speaker issue. Those in the biz know the Auratone as the standard small reference speaker for just about all mixing applications. It has been said that if it is mixed on Auratones, it will sound good anywhere. That is a bit of an exaggeration, but for thirty years they have been the standard. Eventually, other speakers became more popular and Auratone ceased operation. Avantone saw the hole in the market and decided to update the design and remarket it. They now offer two versions, one powered and one un-powered. Both use more powerful speakers than the Auratone. I can vouch for the un-powered version as being built like a tank and very similar to the Auratones in response. We picked up a couple of pairs when some of our Auratones got a bit fatigued. I think the speakers are built in the USA.

I don't know for certain that Avantone gets their mics from China, but at their prices, I can't imagine any other possibility.

Bob

achase4u · #11 10-09-2011, 12:18 PM

Also very interesting!

I wonder if Id like those mixing speakers. I use cheap sennheisers to mix...

Ty Ford · #12 10-09-2011, 03:07 PM

"Avantone saw the hole in the market and decided to update the design and remarket it. They now offer two versions, one powered and one un-powered. Both use more powerful speakers than the Auratone. I can vouch for the un-powered version as being built like a tank and very similar to the Auratones in response. We picked up a couple of pairs when some of our Auratones got a bit fatigued. I think the speakers are built in the USA."

Bob,

Hope you're right, but "me too" products really DO have to perform properly to replace the original. There's more to speaker design than putting a driver in a box. (as I'm sure you know) I use Radio Shack Minimus 7s, no longer in production for my small speaker playback tests. I think Keith Richards or Mick Jagger used to use a 6" x 9" oval car speaker (mounted in what I don't know) as part of a way to check their mixes.

sdelsolray · #13 10-09-2011, 03:52 PM

Most of the Avantone mics are from China, in the sense that they are Chinese off the shelf designs. However, in speaking with Avantone's owner and two other folks there, there are some tweaks in some of the designs and there is a quality control step that is fairly robust, particularly with respect to capsules. One of their mics is of USA design, the expensive tube vocal mic (can't remember the model #). Of course, the outer appearance of the mic product line is different (red bodies).

As stated before, the CV28 mics are quite nice. They are a bit of a niche mic - mid diaphragm tube. They, are based on the same Chinese design at the Groove Tubes GT44 and Sterling knock off. This is one of the mics that Avantone told me has a slight design tweak. These mics compare favorably with the Peluso P29 (similar design). I like the Mojave M100 and Telefunken M260 small diaphragm tube mics better sonically, but the Avantone CV28 is quieter.

Ty Ford · #14 10-10-2011, 06:28 AM

I'm not saying you can't get a good mic from China, the MXL, MCA SP-1 continues to defy reality with its $50 price point, but for the most, chinese mics imported, badged and tweeked in the US suffer from an edginess and a roughness of build. They typically don't cost as much, but there you are.