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  #16  
Old 04-25-2022, 04:41 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Hi Neil, I've had the good fortune to work with you via zoom, and I know that you are a very talented songwriter.

That doesn't come to order. I feel that songs, like vegetable seeds need the right conditions. (one of my other passion is growing our own food).
As a friend once said to me -plant seeds don't grow as written on the back of the packet, they grow when the soil is warm, and fertile, and the weather is right.

Everything being right and exciting in your world isn't necesarilly the right conditions. New car, new career, new life for you currently.

Perhaps you are in the "now", rather than in the neverwhen of fantasy and imagination.

I don't believe that there is any formula for making the conditions right for writing, however, as I've always been an insomniac, I tend to make up short stories as I try to doze off to distract me from the thousand other thoughts, worries and concerns always whirring around my brain.

Kieth Richards used to keep a cassette recorder by his bed in case he gets an idea. You have your phone. Just a thought.

Otherwise, just get on with the "now" and the songs will come, when the soil is warm, and the weather is right.
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  #17  
Old 04-25-2022, 05:03 PM
foxo foxo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
Hi Neil, I've had the good fortune to work with you via zoom, and I know that you are a very talented songwriter.

That doesn't come to order. I feel that songs, like vegetable seeds need the right conditions. (one of my other passion is growing our own food).
As a friend once said to me -plant seeds don't grow as written on the back of the packet, they grow when the soil is warm, and fertile, and the weather is right.

Everything being right and exciting in your world isn't necesarilly the right conditions. New car, new career, new life for you currently.

Perhaps you are in the "now", rather than in the neverwhen of fantasy and imagination.

I don't believe that there is any formula for making the conditions right for writing, however, as I've always been an insomniac, I tend to make up short stories as I try to doze off to distract me from the thousand other thoughts, worries and concerns always whirring around my brain.

Kieth Richards used to keep a cassette recorder by his bed in case he gets an idea. You have your phone. Just a thought.

Otherwise, just get on with the "now" and the songs will come, when the soil is warm, and the weather is right.
Thanks very much Andy. Definitely some good points there.
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Last edited by foxo; 04-25-2022 at 05:10 PM.
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  #18  
Old 04-26-2022, 05:47 AM
firenza firenza is offline
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I'm wondering, as you say you write lyrics before music, whether it would help temporarily to try and collaborative song. It sounds as though basically it's the lyrics you're stuck on. Maybe get someone else to write lyrics, then you compose a tune to the words?
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  #19  
Old 04-26-2022, 05:49 AM
firenza firenza is offline
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I'm wondering, as you say you write lyrics before music, whether it would help temporarily to try a collaborative song. It sounds as though basically it's the lyrics you're stuck on. Maybe get someone else to write lyrics, then you compose a tune to the words?
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  #20  
Old 04-26-2022, 06:16 AM
foxo foxo is offline
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Originally Posted by firenza View Post
I'm wondering, as you say you write lyrics before music, whether it would help temporarily to try and collaborative song. It sounds as though basically it's the lyrics you're stuck on. Maybe get someone else to write lyrics, then you compose a tune to the words?
Thanks firenza. I've tried this the other way round - my friend wrote the music to this song and I wrote the lyrics. I'm really happy how it turned out.



No harm in trying it the way you suggest but I think lyrics are my strong point over melody.
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  #21  
Old 04-27-2022, 10:36 PM
hatamoto hatamoto is offline
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I switch to alternate tunings then I convert that piece into standard tuning. We often have our own patterns, licks and riffs that we gravitate to in standard and it can get boring after a while.

By switching to a different tuning, it forces me explore different voicings and patterns. I also have to re-learn the fretboard which is both time consuming but also fun.

Right now I'm re-learning an Andy Mckee song that I learned in my beginning years and transposing that into standard tuning. The piece doesn't need to have the same exact feel and rhythm which is the whole point. It's also really cool to finally understand what's going on in that piece since playing it in standard demystifies it.

I'm also playing around with Michael Hedges' Aerial Boundaries but using effects and a looper with my electric guitar.

My goal is to keep remixing these pieces (in standard) until it doesn't sound like the original anymore. In the end I'd like to just have the chord voicings down, but the melody and rhythm should be different. The process feels like learning and un-learning a piece.

Last edited by hatamoto; 04-27-2022 at 10:43 PM.
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  #22  
Old 04-28-2022, 08:29 AM
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Mr. Jelly Mr. Jelly is offline
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If you are a writer, then you have to be writing. Inspiration isn't that much of the formula. It's a craft or skill. Peoples best work comes from drudgery. The best songs come from rewrites. And all songs can benefit from being rewritten. Well, almost there are one or two perfect songs. A real song writer can tell what works and doesn't work and the whys and hows of any song. The key to writing good songs is to write songs. Many, many, many songs day after day for weeks and months. Years ago, I did it for a job for awhile. So if you want inspiration it will come while you are writing. If it comes while you're not writing it doesn't matter anyway, right?
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  #23  
Old 05-10-2022, 05:57 PM
foxo foxo is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly View Post
If you are a writer, then you have to be writing. Inspiration isn't that much of the formula. It's a craft or skill. Peoples best work comes from drudgery. The best songs come from rewrites. And all songs can benefit from being rewritten. Well, almost there are one or two perfect songs. A real song writer can tell what works and doesn't work and the whys and hows of any song. The key to writing good songs is to write songs. Many, many, many songs day after day for weeks and months. Years ago, I did it for a job for awhile. So if you want inspiration it will come while you are writing. If it comes while you're not writing it doesn't matter anyway, right?
Interesting that there are such opposing perspectives on this. Some, wait for inspiration, others, persevere. I think I am going to try the latter approach for now as I haven't had much luck with the former. Will see what drudgery can bring to the table! Thanks.
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  #24  
Old 05-13-2022, 11:14 AM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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For me, the hard part about writing music is finding a subject that I think anyone else would find interesting or appealing. But for me, coming up with original music has generally been the easiest part of writing.

When I have been writing a lot and feel that I am just repeating myself musically, using the same ideas too much, I look for songs written by others that really appeal to me.

By analyzing someone else's composition to see what makes their music work, I can then use some of their ideas to generate new compositions using similar techniques. Of course, a person has to be careful that he/she is not just copying someone else's composition. But I have found that when I understand a technique someone is using, I can apply that to a new composition and come up with something new that sounds unique and doesn't sound like a simple clone of someone else's ideas.

For ideas on songs, sometimes just looking through lists of idiomatic expressions can give you ideas for a hook. To me, that is where a song needs to start: the hook. Once you have that, you build ideas off that hook, write down as many phrases as you can think of, and then build the song from those phrases, or new ones that pop into your head during the writing process.

Poetry can also suggest ideas for songs. Poets have the same challenges as song writers. Looking through lists of poetry titles can give you all sorts of ideas.

- Glenn
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  #25  
Old 05-13-2022, 12:17 PM
foxo foxo is offline
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Originally Posted by Glennwillow View Post
For me, the hard part about writing music is finding a subject that I think anyone else would find interesting or appealing. But for me, coming up with original music has generally been the easiest part of writing.

When I have been writing a lot and feel that I am just repeating myself musically, using the same ideas too much, I look for songs written by others that really appeal to me.

By analyzing someone else's composition to see what makes their music work, I can then use some of their ideas to generate new compositions using similar techniques. Of course, a person has to be careful that he/she is not just copying someone else's composition. But I have found that when I understand a technique someone is using, I can apply that to a new composition and come up with something new that sounds unique and doesn't sound like a simple clone of someone else's ideas.

For ideas on songs, sometimes just looking through lists of idiomatic expressions can give you ideas for a hook. To me, that is where a song needs to start: the hook. Once you have that, you build ideas off that hook, write down as many phrases as you can think of, and then build the song from those phrases, or new ones that pop into your head during the writing process.

Poetry can also suggest ideas for songs. Poets have the same challenges as song writers. Looking through lists of poetry titles can give you all sorts of ideas.

- Glenn
Thanks for the tips Glenn. I made a few poetic acquisitions at a charity shop the other day to assist with songwriting, my favourite one in fact being William McGonagall as a constant source of amusement and a reminder of what not to do.

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