Stereo Versus Mono Waveforms

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Yes you might try the Cockos forum,,,,

But in general regardless of which DAW if you have a pair of mics going into either the single inputs on two mono tracks or the double (1-2 or L-R inputs) of a stereo track AND your panning is correct when you tap a specific mic you should be hearing it basically( predominantly) out of the corresponding Left or Right speaker or headphone cup (Just the same in a stereo track as two mono tracks )

That said and (If) I am reading your post correctly and you are saying that in the Rebecca's Waltz stereo tract set up, if you are using the default stereo panning selection, and you have two knobs showing ? you should not use them (like you do with two mono tracks ) which could be the problem.
The default stereo panning in Reaper (is not like the default mono track pan knob) Instead it is a balance knob on the left and a width knob on the right


I don't know how old this video is and which version he is using BUT this Kenny Gioia Reaper video explains it pretty well

If I add a new track on a project, the panning knob that comes up on the track is the single L/R pan knob. You can then right click that knob and you have the option to re-configure with the other panning options that are presented in the video above.

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Just wanted to be sure you were not having both mikes fed into one mono track and again both mikes fed into the other mono track.

Not sure why you are using mono inputs on a solo guitar recording. I suggest just having both mikes fed into one stereo track (where the DAW does the hard R and L for you.

If I use two tracks for the two mics, Mic 1 goes to track 1 and Mic 2 goes to track 2. Each is configured as a mono input. It was my understanding that to get a stereo "effect", one mic is panned hard left and then the other one is panned hard right.

The suggestion to use panned mono inputs on a solo guitar recording is from others here on the AGF. I know Doug Young typically uses a spaced pair into one stereo track and that is what I chose to do with Rebecca's Waltz (copying an AGF mentor). I assume that is also your workflow.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

If I use two tracks for the two mics, Mic 1 goes to track 1 and Mic 2 goes to track 2. Each is configured as a mono input. It was my understanding that to get a stereo "effect", one is panned hard left and one is panned hard right.

That's correct though personally I would use one stereo track in the mixer rather than two mono tracks. Less chance for mixed up routing and easier working in the DAW adding post recording effects.

If you could export to a wav file a short raw clip of the recording or just look at that yourself (prior to any effects being added) to see if that is stereo or not - with spaced pairs it will be quite obvious from the waveforms which is the case. Then you will know if the issue is the mixer setup or a DAW plugin or setting.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

If I add a new track on a project, the panning knob that comes up on the track is the single L/R pan knob. You can right click that knob and re-configure with the other panning options.

Not quite clear on "exactly" what you are saying you did on the Rebecca's Waltz recording. What exact panning option you used ?



First yes the default on a stereo track is a single "Balance" knob and with it set @ 12:00 o'clock, and it is hard left and hard right. (and you should see two meters L&R ) which would tell you right off it is a stereo signal .

Second let me correct a partial misstatement in my other post... When you click the single "Balance" knob you get two knobs and some options IF you choose "Stereo Pan" you get single "Pan" knob on the left and a "Width" knob on the right

So. Again

#1 If you add a mono track by default you get one "Pan" knob
#2 If you ad a stereo track by default you get one "Balance" knob

If above you are talking about if you add a "Stereo" track to a project ? , yes it loads by default with the one Stereo "Balance" knob.


If you click on that knob you get the two knobs and some the Panning options which option did you select ? If you select "Stereo Pan" as I said, the two knobs are not just two "Pan" knobs,, (like you would get with two mono tracks) the left is a " Pan" knob BUT the right knob is a width knob .

If you select "Dual Pan" you get two sliders BUT they are true Pan sliders

As a side note
When you have two mono tracks, one with one mic, and one with the other mic ...Then that is a completely viable method, as is a single stereo track,, they are both completely viable methods, personal work flow "preference" being the only main difference.
It is easy to label and organize as to not mix up routing etc. and the best way to not have routing or any mixups is user defined templates ....

But again with either method you should be hearing the left mic in the left spk. or ear cup, and the right on the right ... not in the center

[SprintBob]

In going back in detail over the last week on my Reaper DAW recordings, I believe my final rendered WAV file(s) does have a stereo image.

Using the same DAW settings I typically use, if I tap the left mic and then the right mic I hear both distinctly in my left and right ears individually through my mixing headphones whether I set the recording up as two mics into a single stereo track or two mics on separate mono tracks panned left and right. In the final post processing, the stereo image in the Ozone Stereo Imager plug-in is nearly identical in amplitude and width to a stereo media file (a Will McNicol fingerstyle recording) I inserted into a track for comparison.

At this point, I'll keep my workflow the same.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

In going back in detail over the last week on my Reaper DAW recordings, I believe my final rendered WAV file(s) does have a stereo image.

Using the same DAW settings I typically use, if I tap the left mic and then the right mic I hear both distinctly in my left and right ears individually through my mixing headphones whether I set the recording up as two mics into a single stereo track or two mics on separate mono tracks panned left and right. In the final post processing, the stereo image in the Ozone Stereo Imager plug-in is nearly identical in amplitude and width to a stereo media file (a Will McNicol fingerstyle recording) I inserted into a track for comparison.

At this point, I'll keep my workflow the same.

The recording I checked out at the start of this thread was mono (no question about that). Some of your other recording perhaps did come out stereo. If you could post a link to another recording you did I'll take a listen to it.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

The recording I checked out at the start of this thread was mono (no question about that). Some of your other recording perhaps did come out stereo. If you could post a link to another recording you did I'll take a listen to it.

Yeah, the Rebecca recording appears to be mono with some stereo reverb. You can hear the effect of the phase cancellation from summing spaced pairs. This may help:

Here's a tool I like for stereo, Blue Cat's Stereo Pro. Y axis is volume, X axis is panning location. Here's what mono looks like:

Screen Shot 2022-02-24 at 11.24.17 AM.jpg


And here's what your track looks like,Bob. A tad wider, but still very narrow, which I's suspect is just mono with a touch of stereo reverb:

Screen Shot 2022-02-24 at 11.24.37 AM.jpg

And here's what Al Petteway's recording of Rebecca looks like, which is how I'd expect a spaced pair stereo recording to look in this tool:

Screen Shot 2022-02-24 at 11.25.55 AM.jpg

[SprintBob]

So this is strange.

Here is a screenshot of the Rebecca's Waltz stereo track playing in Reaper pre-render. It does not look as "spiked" as it does in Doug's post above.



So I rendered the file and opened it in Reaper and look at how it's changed, looks very mono.



I checked other songs I recorded and they are more consistent with the first screenshot above. I have no idea why this is happening with the rendered WAV file for this specific recording.

[rick-slo]

Just checked some recent recordings of yours in Show and Tell.
McGuire's Landing, HERE COMES THE SUN and SHOOTING STAR are all stereo and they sound fine.

Rebecca is mono and sounds that way.

If Rebecca is the newest recording and if you have not changed your mixer settings you used on the other recordings or have changed
your render settings then as I already mentioned a couple of times check your plugins. Perhaps one of those used with Rebecca is the
culprit.

[Doug Young]

With a search, I see some others reporting this problem:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=228265 (no solution, unfortunately)

My guess would be some setting in Reaper's export/rendering process, but the challenge with stuff like this is that it could be anything, and not being a Reaper user, it's just wild guesses. Can you access the raw recording file with Reaper? Maybe start a new project and load that file in, so you're starting with a clean slate?

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

With a search, I see some others reporting this problem:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=228265 (no solution, unfortunately)

My guess would be some setting in Reaper's export/rendering process, but the challenge with stuff like this is that it could be anything, and not being a Reaper user, it's just wild guesses. Can you access the raw recording file with Reaper? Maybe start a new project and load that file in, so you're starting with a clean slate?

Thanks for the link above to the Reaper forum thread. I read through it and I verified I covered all the suggestions. Reaper seems to be quirky. It will crash on me periodically and sometimes a button or function just becomes non-functional and then a day later it’s working and you can’t figure out what changed. I guess it’s a common problem with all DAW’s or similar software (Photoshop) where there are so many paths and configurations available. I try so hard to practice KISS with Reaper (Keep It Simple Stupid).

I’m going to repost Rebecca’s Waltz later today (need to get to my day job!). I think I got it rendered with a stereo image finally.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Thanks for the link above to the Reaper forum thread. I read through it and I verified I covered all the suggestions. Reaper seems to be quirky. It will crash on me periodically and sometimes a button or function just becomes non-functional and then a day later it’s working and you can’t figure out what changed. I guess it’s a common problem with all DAW’s or similar software (Photoshop) where there are so many paths and configurations available. I try so hard to practice KISS with Reaper (Keep It Simple Stupid).

I’m going to repost Rebecca’s Waltz later today (need to get to my day job!). I think I got it rendered with a stereo image finally.

When I tested Reaper (admittedly a while back Version 5 maybe) I found it's blessing to also be its curse . Almost infinite ways to custom configure and almost infinite ways to goof it up .

Like you say keep it as simple and basic to your specific needs as possible Also especially at first (applies to any DAW ) take brief notes on what you are doing and why........

PLUS absolutely become familiar with how to set up and recall and use User defined project templates (once you configure one that works using a template will eliminate 90% + of problems like routing etc. )

For example here is my user template for my basic Guitar and Vocal projects as you can see it 16 tracks total and fairly complex BUT all I have to do to record is launch the DAW >select the template> and select the track or tracks I want to record arm just those and I am ready to go in seconds ... because all the naming,, all the routing,,, all the usual plugins I use ,, everything is already done..
For example it has 3 potential guitar parts and 2 vocal parts BUT depending on the specific song I can use however many of those I want or not

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by KevWind

When I tested Reaper (admittedly a while back Version 5 maybe) I found it's blessing to also be its curse . Almost infinite ways to custom configure and almost infinite ways to goof it up .

Like you say keep it as simple and basic to your specific needs as possible Also especially at first (applies to any DAW ) take brief notes on what you are doing and why........

PLUS absolutely become familiar with how to set up and recall and use User defined project templates (once you configure one that works using a template will eliminate 90% + of problems like routing etc. )

For example here is my user template for my basic Guitar and Vocal projects as you can see it 16 tracks total and fairly complex BUT all I have to do to record is launch the DAW >select the template> and select the track or tracks I want to record arm just those and I am ready to go in seconds ... because all the naming,, all the routing,,, all the usual plugins I use ,, everything is already done..
For example it has 3 potential guitar parts and 2 vocal parts BUT depending on the specific song I can use however many of those I want or not

I'm with you and my template is even simpler since it's one solo guitar! Thanks Kev.