Jazz comping instructor sources for the Mandosaurus?

[maxr]

The MandoSaurus is a Guild F2512 12 string tuned in 5ths C G D A E B (or same thing, tuned a tone down from there with a capo on the 2nd). I play fiddle tunes on it and aim to learn jazz/gypsy jazz chord comping style to accompany fiddle tunes. As it's a 12 string, I think 3/4 part chords will be quite full enough.

Any ideas for jazzy instruction sources for an instrument effectively in tenor guitar tuning, but withth a 25.5" scale? Many mandolin chords are finger busters at this length.

Thanks, Max

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by maxr

The MandoSaurus is a Guild F2512 12 string tuned in 5ths C G D A E B

Which B is that? Surely not five 5ths above the low C?? Or is the low C a pair of bass strings (down at C1)?
Presumably one of those pairs of strings is a 4th below, not a 5th above?

Loving the name, btw.

Originally Posted by maxr

(or same thing, tuned a tone down from there with a capo on the 2nd). I play fiddle tunes on it and aim to learn jazz/gypsy jazz chord comping style to accompany fiddle tunes.

Good luck with that.

Personally, for "jazz/gypsy jazz chord comping style" I'd be using a normal guitar.
If I had one of these beasts, I'd be playing it solo, exploiting all those doubtless awesome resonances. I might even tune it in a more friendly open tuning, avoiding the chord shapes issue.

Originally Posted by maxr

As it's a 12 string, I think 3/4 part chords will be quite full enough.

Any ideas for jazzy instruction sources for an instrument effectively in tenor guitar tuning, but withth a 25.5" scale?

Maybe you should write your own.

[maxr]

Here's the tuning, JonB:

A#(1) F(2) C(3) G(3) D(4) A(4)
A#(2) F(3) C(4) G(4) D(4) A(4)

A#1 is the one below regular tuning low E 6th

Capo on the 2nd then gives C2 G2 D3 A3 E4 B4

I find .007 or .008 D'Addario NYXL super high carbon string will tune to A4 reliably on 25.5" scale. Tuning the whole thing down a tone also increases the resonance of this guitar and make hammer ons and pulloffs easier.

My jazz ignorance is pretty much total, but I'd like to work out accompaniment because if you hog the toon all the time in bar sessions, other folks get restless

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by maxr

Here's the tuning, JonB:

A#(1) F(2) C(3) G(3) D(4) A(4)
A#(2) F(3) C(4) G(4) D(4) A(4)

A#1 is the one below regular tuning low E 6th

Capo on the 2nd then gives C2 G2 D3 A3 E4 B4

I find .007 or .008 D'Addario NYXL super high carbon string will tune to A4 reliably on 25.5" scale.

OK. What about the low A#? What gauge is that?

Originally Posted by maxr

Tuning the whole thing down a tone also increases the resonance of this guitar and make hammer ons and pulloffs easier.

Right. Essentially you have a bass (baritone at least) and a guitar in one!

Originally Posted by maxr

My jazz ignorance is pretty much total, but I'd like to work out accompaniment because if you hog the toon all the time in bar sessions, other folks get restless

You don't have a normal guitar? I suspect, playing the mandosaurus, everyone is going to be gaping at you the whole time anyway.

Robert Fripp's "new standard tuning" has 5 strings in common with yours (CGDAEG), so you should be able to get some tips on chord shapes (and how he uses it when accompanying) if you google that.

[maxr]

JonPR: the low bass string is about.054 , if I remember. When capo'd, it's only 2 whole tones lower than a standard E 6th. The low 6th string is the only real problem. .054 is a little floppy at that pitch, but if you put say a .058 or .060 on there, it goes dead. Maybe I'll try a special string, I believe somebody makes them with different stiffness cores. There's also the small matter of capoing the .054 or bigger with a .030 in a pair

I do have a couple of normal guitars but now they're in this same tuning. John Pearce makes Fripp tuning 6 string acoustic sets (11 13 22 32 47 58), I don't know whether they're standard steel or something fancy. All you need then for all 5ths tuning is a lighter 1st string like maybe an .008 NYXL. The tuning sounds good on 6 strings too - my all ply Cort 'camping' guitar has an interesing sound now. It's fun trying on any beater guitar ou have, especialy if you already play tenor, tenor banjo, mandocello mandolin, fiddle or cello (all 5ths tuning).

I read that Fripp tuned the 1st to a G4 because at the time there wasn't a string that would reach A4, far less B4, on his Les Paul style guitar without breaking. I also read a comment that his guitar is longer than normal Les Paul scale length (25.9"?), which wouldn't help with that. The capo is an unfortunate necessity, and causes tuning hassles of its own. Once I get used to this setup I may ask my local guitar tech to think about the implications of making the 2nd fret a 'nut fret'.

I did actually get a (the...) Fripp tuning chord book from Amazon and redraw the 1st string dots (take all the 1st string chord notes down 4 frets). My current thinking though is that 4 note chords (8 strings in up to 8 pitches, with the octaves) may be enough.

If so I can use a tenor guitar/banjo chord sheet for 'Irish' tenor tuning G D A E (I got the book for that). That tuning is string pairs 5432 on this guitar. If I moved say a D major 4 string chord shape across to string pairs 4321 at the same fret it's still a major chord, just a 5th up at A major. If I move that shape across to pairs 6543 at the same fret its a major a 5th down at G major. There are also, as with tenor guitar, more 'multi name' chords where the same shape at the same fret is an inversion of another chord. My cunning plan is to use as few chord shapes as I can get away with, by mostly playing moveable chords and keeping 'open' chords for any finger picking accompaniment I might do. Well, it worked for Django - that's a way down the road currently

The great thing is that this look likes any jumbo 12 string, but it sounds something between a normal 12, a mandocello and a bouzouki in the mid range, and like nothing you've heard higher up the neck. As you suggest, the harmonics sync in an interesting way too, if you have a good enough tuner.