practicing scales, modes, licks

[samcatluth]

As I continue to work on scales it occurred to me while watching a player "shred" on a tune that it looks like they are using memorized scales and licks, modified at times, to perform the song. The trick is to learn them and be able to play them fast, without thinking, so they take on a whole different sound compared to when you just play one note at a time not so fast. Is this what's going on?

[rick-slo]

Much of improvisation includes previously memorized patterns, even more so with licks and riffs.

[Llewlyn]

I like a lot learning licks as it helps me "reveal" sound patterns on fretboard. I then try to understand what are the intervals involved, so that I can transpose them anywhere.

Ll.

[samcatluth]

what's the difference between a lick and a riff?

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by samcatluth

what's the difference between a lick and a riff?

Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lick_(music)

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by samcatluth

what's the difference between a lick and a riff?

A riff is a short repeated "motif" - usually quite simple, one or two bars, just a few notes with a strong rhythmic content, often syncopated. Some riffs can be rhythm only, on one note. The essential factor is the repetition. Quite often a band will play a riff in unison. A riff is normally part of a composition, rarely improvised. Normally on just one chord - or you can also have "chord riffs", such as those played by Keith Richard.

A lick is prepared melodic phrase designed to fit a chord or a common short chord sequence - it might be as short as a riff, but might be over two bars in length. It doesn't necessarily have a distinctive rhythm, but it will be melodically distinctive.
Licks often have a character associated with specific styles ("blues lick") or specific players ("Charlie Parker lick").
Their purpose is to be used in improvised solos, so that the player needn't be inventing new phrases all the time. Some players do prefer to try inventing new stuff on the fly all the time, but most will have favourite licks they'll insert now and then.

The two things do often overlap. A short "lick", if it's repeated a few times, can become a "riff". Then again, "riffing" as a verb can simply mean "improvising", usually in quite a simple or unfocused way, similar to "jamming" but usually implying something rhythmic.

[WonderMonkey]

It is like when someone learns a bunch of words then in the context of a conversation uses them in sentences. Many of the words are the same but rearranging them and in various contexts, they are completely different.

Learning many standard sequences of notes are your words, and you combine them as needed to get your extended licks, riffs, runs, etc.

[815C]

Using memorized licks, riffs, etc. is a great way to start soloing.

However, the goal is to get to the point that you can play what you'd hum or scat sing over a song - but use your guitar instead of your voice. But even the great jazz soloists use a lot a material that is ingrained in them and not totally spontaneous.

Here is something to try to develop your soloing. Play the chords you want to solo over and record yourself singing the guitar solo you'd like to play over those chords, and then go back and listen to the recording and figure out how to play what you just sang. This will often lead to better phrasing (where to NOT play) in your soloing.

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by samcatluth

As I continue to work on scales it occurred to me while watching a player "shred" on a tune that it looks like they are using memorized scales and licks, modified at times, to perform the song. The trick is to learn them and be able to play them fast, without thinking, so they take on a whole different sound compared to when you just play one note at a time not so fast. Is this what's going on?

This kind of sounds like using scales as a gimmick. Which works but it isn't an expression of anything. There are twelve notes in different octaves. Assimilate them in a usable manner. You can play anything as long as you bring it back or have it make sense to the listener now and again. One exercise I've used is to play gibberish and hit the root note on the chord changes. I did that one night when a friend of my son, who is a scale head and knows more than I ever will, was at a show I was doing once. Later he mentioned it and stated he needs to do more work on scales.

[MartinGibsonFan]

Mr. Jelly's response caused me an A HA moment about being fast and making sense of being fast, or maybe being a bit slow and making more sense about being slow.

Let's analogize fast guitar licks with fast talking. Some people can talk fast and sometimes (?) make sense when talking fast.

How about those slow (deliberate) talkers? Slow talkers make more sense, are able to put more feeling in their talk, cause a more easy going atmosphere to prevail.

I'm a slow talker (guitar player). I've tried to talk fast (play guitar fast) to no avail. Both failed.

Some of us are slow guitar players and no matter how many scales we practice, they won't sound natural playing fast.

For those folks (that's me) I stick to slow blues licks and slow improvisation.

Works for me.

MGF

[Deliberate1]

"You've got to learn your instrument. Then, you practice, practice, practice. And then, when you finally get up there on the bandstand, forget all that and just wail."
- Charlie Parker

[MC5C]

Scales, licks, modes, whatever you want to call them, are the vocabulary of the instrument. The more words, and the more familiar with the words, the better a speaker and player you become. You learn them, you practice them, and then when you want them they fall under your fingers effortlessly. Lots of music is fast, furious, intricate, and played exactly the same every time. Fiddle tunes are like that, classical music can be like that, a lot of bluegrass is like that. I met a guy who had studied bluegrass mandolin with Bill Monroe. He had prepared a tune, and showed up at Bill's place to have a lesson. He had added some new licks, some innovation, to the tune, and Bill just stopped playing and said "if you aren't going to play it right there ain't no point in me teaching you" or words to that effect.

[MakingMusic]

Originally Posted by WonderMonkey

It is like when someone learns a bunch of words then in the context of a conversation uses them in sentences. Many of the words are the same but rearranging them and in various contexts, they are completely different.

Learning many standard sequences of notes are your words, and you combine them as needed to get your extended licks, riffs, runs, etc.

This is a great analogy. So true.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by samcatluth

what's the difference between a lick and a riff?

You can’t riff an ice cream cone.