Starter Recording Rig - Where Begin

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

This is a great video, chock full of acoustic recording tips. The mic setups are 2-microphone spaced pairs. And, in fact, the second mic setup they use an SM57 on the bridge side, along with a large-diaphragm condenser. Good combo if you want a little bluesier, grittier sound.

That is an interesting video, I've seen it before. Weird thing, tho, is that he's using "spaced" pairs, but blending to mono, which is kind of odd - and it sounds like it. A bit closed in and thin, getting some phase cancellation between the mics. I'd be, uh, not happy, if I got that guitar sound. And of course he's also talking about blending the guitar into a mix with other instruments - no one in these sorts of videos ever believes someone would play just solo guitar!

[alohachris]

Aloha Newpipa,

B]"One thing I don’t expect to undertake is building my own insulation panels and lining my studio / extra bedroom with them."[/B] - newpipa.

Yeah, as a beginner home recordist, you can wait a few years (ha!) to consider the absolute need for Room Treatment or if you're even going further into a less casual approach to recording.

For now, concentrate on mic placement variations - close miking is all you can do w/o treatment. Mono recording with one mic (placed about 10-12" out & even with the top of your instrument - not in the soundhole) may work better for you than your current unmatched, disparate mics in an A-B spaced pair or X-Y.

As -or if- your ears become educated, you may notice some inconsistencies & other issues with your recordings. About the time you find yourself wanting to splurge on some matched SDC's & other items you will definitely need for stereo recording through a planned signal chain, THEN it might be time to consider making your own DIY Room Treatment. But only if you know 'why' you need it.

Yeah, beginner's don't need treatment, right, Doug? But, they also shouldn't upgrade ANY gear before they Treat their Space. Waste of money! Gear cannot fix an untreated space or make your recordings more consistent, newpipa.

Here's how Doug really feels about Room Treatment, newpipa. You don't need educated ears to hear the differences here:

https://soundcloud.com/doug-young/ro...nt-effect-demo

Newpipa, you should ask Doug to explain what creates or limits the sonic effects of those three samples, the why's, & how to control those effects (early room reflections). For example, why does the second sample in the treated space sound better from 18" out than the third sample from 8" out in same treated space?

Good Luck, newpipa!
alohachris

[alohachris]

Duplicate Post

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Newpipa,

B]"One thing I don’t expect to undertake is building my own insulation panels and lining my studio / extra bedroom with them."[/B] - newpipa.

Yeah, as a beginner home recordist, you can wait a few years (ha!) to consider the absolute need for Room Treatment or if you're even going further into a less casual approach to recording.

For now, concentrate on mic placement variations - close miking is all you can do w/o treatment. Mono recording with one mic (placed about 10-12" out & even with the top of your instrument - not in the soundhole) may work better for you than your current unmatched, disparate mics in an A-B spaced pair or X-Y.

As -or if- your ears become educated, you may notice some inconsistencies & other issues with your recordings. About the time you find yourself wanting to splurge on some matched SDC's & other items you will definitely need for stereo recording through a planned signal chain, THEN it might be time to consider making your own DIY Room Treatment. But only if you know 'why' you need it.

Yeah, beginner's don't need treatment, right, Doug? But, they also shouldn't upgrade ANY gear before they Treat their Space. Waste of money! Gear cannot fix an untreated space or make your recordings more consistent, newpipa.

Here's how Doug really feels about Room Treatment, newpipa. You don't need educated ears to hear the differences here:

https://soundcloud.com/doug-young/ro...nt-effect-demo

Newpipa, you should ask Doug to explain what creates or limits the sonic effects of those three samples, the why's, & how to control those effects (early room reflections). For example, why does the second sample in the treated space sound better from 18" out than the third sample from 8" out in same treated space?

Good Luck, newpipa!
alohachris

Those are serious changes in recording quality!

I would love to see a pic of the treatment setup that saw track one morph into track two - or just a description?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Yeah, beginner's don't need treatment, right, Doug? But, they also shouldn't upgrade ANY gear before they Treat their Space. Waste of money! Gear cannot fix an untreated space or make your recordings more consistent, newpipa.

It's always a matter of timing and priorities. There's so much to learn, and who knows if someone who "wants to get started recording", will still be interested in a few months. The OP has some basic gear, or I'd just advise him to get a Zoom recorder, sit in the living room or bedroom and get started. Everything else will come with time, assuming he stays interested. The lack of proper tools, whether that's mics, or good studio monitors, good room acoustics, or the right plugins, reverb, etc, etc, can make it challenging - if it sounds bad, is it my mic placement? or that the mics aren't good? or that the room acoustics are bad? or maybe my speakers just aren't accurate? It's kind of a circular process where you incrementally learn, and keep cycling back. At least for me it was.

It's nice just to have fun doing this stuff, not to have to deal with every requirement for perfection up front. I have a friend who recently decided she wanted to learn ukelele. Great. Except her husband is a very intellectual type, who plays piano. He insisted that she study music theory before she even put her hands on the uke. Needless to say, her interest didn't last long!

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

Those are serious changes in recording quality!

I would love to see a pic of the treatment setup that saw track one morph into track two - or just a description?

Wrighty, I have a whole ridiculously detailed webpage I created when I built my studio: http://dougyoungguitar.com/studio.php. I was thinking of taking that down recently, just kind of ancient and dated now :-). I kind of went down a rabbit hole with it, and spent 6 months of nights and weekends constructing when I should have been practicing....

But basically I went from a bare garage, concrete floor, etc to OC703 in the entire ceiling, bass traps built into corners, walls covered about 50% with removable panels. Probably the equivalent of 25-30 2x4 panels in the room. The room is also a room-in-a-room, doubly insulated, which helps keep outside noise out somewhat - tho originally that was to keep the noise of my son's punk rock band in and away from the neighbors.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Wrighty, I have a whole ridiculously detailed webpage I created when I built my studio: http://dougyoungguitar.com/studio.php. I was thinking of taking that down recently, just kind of ancient and dated now :-). I kind of went down a rabbit hole with it, and spent 6 months of nights and weekends constructing when I should have been practicing....



But basically I went from a bare garage, concrete floor, etc to OC703 in the entire ceiling, bass traps built into corners, walls covered about 50% with removable panels. Probably the equivalent of 25-30 2x4 panels in the room. The room is also a room-in-a-room, doubly insulated, which helps keep outside noise out somewhat - tho originally that was to keep the noise of my son's punk rock band in and away from the neighbors.

Thanks Doug - very interesting, you clearly went fairly deep down that rabbit hole ;-)

I have two large diffuser panels (1.4x1.4m) then 2 (1.2 x 0.6) and then 5 smaller ones (0.6 x 0.6)

I play into the two large ones set up as a V shape and then arrange the others behind and above me - albeit with less structure than I would like, hence looking for placement ideas.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I'd just get started with what you have. 2 mic stands would definitely be useful. With 2 unmatched mics, you'll probably want to record the guitar using a spaced pair setup - aim one at the neck/body joint, the other below the bridge. Other mic setups, like XY, etc, are better with 2 of the same mic type, and others you mention (like Mid-Side) require specialized mics. But what you have will get you started, and you'll learn more about what else you want to try.

I would agree with Doug. Start with what you have and learn how to use your mics to best advantage. You will get different results from them, and only you can decide which is "better." Positioning makes a huge difference. I've found that for my HD-28V pointing my large-condenser mic at the lower bout angled slightly toward the sound hole works best for me, but that may not (probably will not) work best for you.

Asking about which is the mic your should be using is like asking which flat pick or capo you should be using. You will get many answers, all different. As you get more experience, you might consider borrowing or renting other mics before you buy.

Have fun going down this new rabbit hole!

[tinnitus]

Already have mics, stands and cables. And I have limited experience in the distant past using a 4-track Tascam cassette recorder. Gave up on that quickly when I found that any hint of bass guitar was more or less permanent on such skinny little tape.

Spent years playing with various garage bands where other players (professional computer geeks by day) took care of all recording on fancy/expensive software with lots of equipment I barely understood. Now, years later and playing alone with acoustics, I hope to find something super simple I can use on a PC format laptop.

Is there an extremely basic hardware interface I can plug in and some simple user-friendly software everyone can agree would be good for this beginner? Perhaps this is already covered in another thread? I looked and didn't find it. Thanks for some direction.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by tinnitus

Is there an extremely basic hardware interface I can plug in and some simple user-friendly software everyone can agree would be good for this beginner? Perhaps this is already covered in another thread? I looked and didn't find it. Thanks for some direction.

There is no one-size-fits-all; everyone has different needs. Good stuff in this thread, and read through these:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=502715
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=588734
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=586820
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=586137

There are several basic approaches, though:
1. Mic > audio interface > computer with DAW
2. Dedicated hardware (often with built-in mics) like Zoom or Tascam recorders or the Spire Studio
3. Mic > Phone or tablet

Approach #1 requires more pieces and typically gives you the most capability and room to grow (though not necessarily more expensive than the others). Many people find #2 the best balance of ease of use with sound quality, at the expense of having less ability to edit/mix after the fact. There are external mics that plug into phones or tablets for approach #3 that give pretty good quality.

Both #2 and #3 can have the advantage of portability for the initial recording. Many people also use #2 or #3 to record initial tracks, then transfer to a computer with DAW for final processing.

If you have a dedicated room or studio where you'll record, I'd go with approach #1. Plenty of decent mic choices and audio interfaces in the $100-$250 range to get you started, and inexpensive DAW software. If you've already done a little multi-track recording, you ought to be able to navigate any DAW (maybe with a little help from YouTube tutorials). This thread will give you an idea of what's out there: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=588472.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by tinnitus

Is there an extremely basic hardware interface I can plug in and some simple user-friendly software everyone can agree would be good for this beginner? Perhaps this is already covered in another thread? I looked and didn't find it. Thanks for some direction.

I think Chipotle layed it all out quite well. BTW, all DAWs have learning curve.

I'm am not an expert, but I have played with a few DAWS, and I would suggest either Reaper or Studio One Artist.

IMO, lower-cost audio interfaces are pretty similar and they all work quite well. If you go with Option one I suggest you look at the PreSonus AudioBox USB 96, which includes a license for Studio One Artist. If you outgrow it, as I did (I wanted more ports) you can probably sell it for half of what you paid, as I did, and keep the software.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...udiobox-usb-96

[TBman]

I have the following gear. I'm just a hobbyist.

2 floor mic stands
2 small desktop mic tripods
2 large (heavy) desktop mic stands

1 mic stand attachment for Zoom H5.

Zoom H5 (main recording device)
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (as a backup recording device and secondary sound hardware for PC - I use headphones frequently with it, especially with the DAWs)
AKG Headphones

Primary mics - two AT 2035

Other mics (cost of not knowing what I really needed):
Sterling ST170 ribbon mic
Rode Nt5
Presonus AKG 150
MXL 990/991 set


DAW - editing - Rx Standard
DAW - Fx - Reaper
More VST plugins than I really need

[newpipa]

So, it appears my Presonus M7 condenser mic (which came with their interface) is broken. Whenever I plug it in, it hums constantly. I changed cables, the plug on the AudioBox iTwo... still hums. And, if I give it a slight squeeze, the hum reduces. Thus, I think it's a bad mic (i.e. something loose). I have no issues from same interface with Shure SM57. The latter of course does not need phantom power. so that's a key difference.

I have recorded some with just my Shure SM57. And for mono recording, it was not bad. I am looking for "decent" quality at this point mostly for lessons, sharing with friends, backup tracks for my singer to use for practice.

However, since I want to try stereo, and I need another mic, should I consider a matched pair of mics? As I understand it, some of these various mic orientations require matched pairs.

For either one or two mics, should I be looking at SDC, LDCs or other? This no doubt is another one of those, "well it depends" questions. But my reading seems to lean toward SDCs for solo guitar. (And presumably, I could use the Shure SM57 for vocals if ever required.)

Just to ballpark it, I am willing to spend $200-$400 for some mics.

What do you recommend?

Thanks

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by newpipa

So, it appears my Presonus M7 condenser mic (which came with their interface) is broken. Whenever I plug it in, it hums constantly. I changed cables, the plug on the AudioBox iTwo... still hums. And, if I give it a slight squeeze, the hum reduces. Thus, I think it's a bad mic (i.e. something loose). I have no issues from same interface with Shure SM57. The latter of course does not need phantom power. so that's a key difference.

I have recorded some with just my Shure SM57. And for mono recording, it was not bad. I am looking for "decent" quality at this point mostly for lessons, sharing with friends, backup tracks for my singer to use for practice.

However, since I want to try stereo, and I need another mic, should I consider a matched pair of mics? As I understand it, some of these various mic orientations require matched pairs.

For either one or two mics, should I be looking at SDC, LDCs or other? This no doubt is another one of those, "well it depends" questions. But my reading seems to lean toward SDCs for solo guitar. (And presumably, I could use the Shure SM57 for vocals if ever required.)

Just to ballpark it, I am willing to spend $200-$400 for some mics.

What do you recommend?

Thanks

I would recommend a pair of SDC there are a number of options from around $200 up SE, Rodes, AT, AKG, all have SDC pairs in your Budget range

Or depending on how serious you are and if you might consider saving up a bit more and perhaps do it once and have keeper mics
Warm Audio (known for value priced versions of classic studio mics) has come out with their version of the iconic Neumann 84 SDC


(if they even just close to the original Neumann 84's) they would be stellar and likely lifetime mics0

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...reo-pair-black

[Denandannie]

I you don't want to follow the crowd into the DAW blackhole, you could consider a Tascam DP24sd. Never have to use your cmputer until you are ready to make a CD.