Recording Levels for Solo Acoustic Fingerstyle

[SprintBob]

Like to get feedback on how folks here are setting their mic recordng levels in their DAW's or whatever recording device they are using when recording solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar.

I've used fairly common advice to average around -12dB with no peaks over -6bB. Recently I've read advice to keep the average around -18dB to -20dB with no peaks over -12 dB.

I have great mics, preamp, and interface in my recording chain and I've had steady improvement with experience and great advice I have received here. My assumption is that if you get a really nice clean recording at the lower level above, you have more headroom for mixing and final mastering.

Thanks!

[jklotz]

I tend to try to get mine a little hotter, maybe peaking at -10db. That way I don't have to add too much noise when I crank it up with a compressor for output.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by jklotz

I tend to try to get mine a little hotter, maybe peaking at -10db. That way I don't have to add too much noise when I crank it up with a compressor for output.

I've listened to your recordings here on Show and Tell and they are great.

In referring to a compressor for output, is that referring to a compressor (a piece of hardware) downstream of the mic preamp section outputting to your audio interface? I think of "compression" as a post processing software tool (such as a DAW plugin).

Thanks!

P.S. - Your new Edwinson is looking amazing!

[Rudy4]

I don't see any particular reason to record below -10 or -12. That still leaves plenty of room to make absolutely sure you don't hit 0, which is your goal when deciding how high to set your gain levels.

All this hinges of course, on recording at 24 bits or higher bit rate and a minimum of 44.1 khz.

Occasionally you'll still run into someone just starting out as a home recordist and trying to use those lower levels with 16 bit audio. Not advisable in any form.

[Doug Young]

The reason to record a bit lower than max is so you are sure not to go "over" and to leave a little room for processing. For example, if you need to add 3db of boost at some frequency while mixing, it's more convenient to leave that room to work with so the EQ doesn't send it "over". With 24 bits you have plenty of headroom, so you don't generally need to worry about being too low, as long as you don't have extra noise in your system that's independent of the guitar level. Leaving 6db or even 3 should be fine, and gives you a nice solid level to work with, while still having room for some processing.

With fingerstyle, you typically don't have a lot of dynamic range to worry about (unless you're doing percussion or something), so it shouldn't be necessary to leave too much headroom - compared to vocalists, horns, etc, which can surprise you suddenly with loud bursts if you don't leave extra headroom for them.

[Glennwillow]

I record at peaks just about or slightly over -10 db even when I am singing.

I do use the Izotope Ozone plug-in in my DAW for mastering to bring levels up to more consistent levels with recordings on CDs and online. If you push the levels too much, you will hear slight distortion so I try to use fairly moderate compression in Ozone. I use Ozone Elements which is moderately priced, but it does a very good job and sounds good.

If I remember correctly, I learned about Ozone from Doug Young here on the AGF.

- Glenn

[jklotz]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

The reason to record a bit lower than max is so you are sure not to go "over" and to leave a little room for processing. For example, if you need to add 3db of boost at some frequency while mixing, it's more convenient to leave that room to work with so the EQ doesn't send it "over". With 24 bits you have plenty of headroom, so you don't generally need to worry about being too low, as long as you don't have extra noise in your system that's independent of the guitar level. Leaving 6db or even 3 should be fine, and gives you a nice solid level to work with, while still having room for some processing.

With fingerstyle, you typically don't have a lot of dynamic range to worry about (unless you're doing percussion or something), so it shouldn't be necessary to leave too much headroom - compared to vocalists, horns, etc, which can surprise you suddenly with loud bursts if you don't leave extra headroom for them.

Doug, your posts always seem to give me something even after I thought I had it all figured out. I appreciate your posts and am glad you are contributing.

[jklotz]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

I've listened to your recordings here on Show and Tell and they are great.

In referring to a compressor for output, is that referring to a compressor (a piece of hardware) downstream of the mic preamp section outputting to your audio interface? I think of "compression" as a post processing software tool (such as a DAW plugin).

Thanks!

P.S. - Your new Edwinson is looking amazing!

Thanks, and yes, I am eagerly awaiting the Edwinson! It'll be my one and only custom, and I'm really happy with how it's looking now. Can't wait to get my hands on the thing. As Tom said, "the waiting is the hardest part".

I use several different compressors, all software plugins. Lately it's been the Waves CLA-2A, which seems to fatten things up a bit, although depending on mic selection, sometimes it a bit much, so I do use others too. I tend to record where I absolutely know I'm not going over so I don't have to think about it when I'm playing, then boost the output of the plugin to get it up to where I want it. The fader tends to stay at unity (0db), +/- a bit. As long as I stay in the range gain staging wise, it seems to work really well. I also run it through the "normalize" setting when bouncing to an output file.

Maybe that helps a little?

[rick-slo]

I have my meters set to show -14 dbFS as a zero point (a K-System option) but I might have peaks at the most up to 10 to 12 decibels
above that.

Mike amps frequently have a best input power recording range. If that seems so you can aim for that. You can always reduce the volume
post recording before you start doing other stuff.

You will find that at a certain amplitude it sounds good but the plug-ins you use may not like it. Some of my plugs have a meter that shows
when they are not happy with the input level.

[RRuskin]

I stopped obsessing over levels a long time ago and merely go for clean and quiet.

[nightchef]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

I've used fairly common advice to average around -12dB with no peaks over -6bB. Recently I've read advice to keep the average around -18dB to -20dB with no peaks over -12 dB.

Both these recommendations seem to seriously underestimate the dynamic range of an acoustic guitar. The difference between average level and peak level is likely to be closer to 15-18 dB than the 6 to 8 dB that you're quoting.

I would try to keep peaks under -12, and certainly no higher than -9. This will likely put average levels somewhere in the -20s, which is a great place to be. Even if your track is more dynamic, so that keeping peaks below -12 means an average level in the -30s, that's totally fine. With digital recording, always err on the side of more headroom than you need.

[rick-slo]

IMO having enough gain when the audio signal is going through any DAW plugins you might be using is a good idea. For example you don't want that VSP reverb doing its calculations on 16 or 24 bit word lengths with a bunch of extra zeros at the head because the signal was low. Recording 24 bit with the zero on the meter scale at -12 or -14 FS seems to work well as a balance between enough headroom and enough signal strength.

[lkingston]

Sort of a sideways comment here, but I just practiced until my strumming and fingerstyle levels matched. It makes everything easier!

[nightchef]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

IMO having enough gain when the audio signal is going through any DAW plugins you might be using is a good idea. For example you don't want that VSP reverb doing its calculations on 16 or 24 bit word lengths with a bunch of extra zeros at the head because the signal was low. Recording 24 bit with the zero on the meter scale at -12 or -14 FS seems to work well as a balance between enough headroom and enough signal strength.

To the bolded -- this is true as far as it goes, but its practical application depends on how you define "extra" and how big "a bunch" is.

24 bit recording provides a theoretical dynamic range of 144 dB, and real-world digital recording equipment provides an actual dynamic range of roughly 110 to 115 dB. So an average level even down in the -40s should still leave plenty of room for processing algorithms to do their work.

I do a lot of location recording of school band/orchestra concerts where the dynamic range is very large. In order to keep peaks under -10, I often find that extended quiet passages run well under -40 and occasionally even under -50 dB. And they sound just fine, and respond to processing just fine. Acoustic guitar has nowhere near that kind of dynamic range. There is, in practical terms, no need to worry about recording acoustic guitar too low as long as your peaks are approaching that -12 or -10 mark.