The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Build and Repair

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 05-03-2018, 04:13 PM
Placida Placida is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,506
Default Bridge Repair Question

I am considering buying a guitar where the piece in front of the saddle has snapped off the bridge. The seller still has that piece (fits perfectly in place), and I want to know if it can be glued back in place with Titebond for a reliable repair, or if the bridge needs to be replaced. My first thought was the bridge will have to be replaced, which I will do if that's what the forum's experts say I should do. Trouble is, these rectangular rosewood bridges aren't easy to find but I can probably find a source.

The guitar is a 00 size and will use light gauge strings. See the outlined area in the photo below of the same model guitar, not the same guitar with the broken bridge. Thanks in advance for some professional advice!

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-03-2018, 04:42 PM
peter.coombe peter.coombe is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Bega, Australia
Posts: 138
Default

The bridge will need to be replaced. You can repair it with superglue, but it will most likely fail later down the track. Titebond is not likely to hold for long.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-03-2018, 09:01 PM
yellowesty yellowesty is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Petaluma, California
Posts: 182
Default

I don't take any exception to Peter's response, but it brings up a question:

Titebond glue has the reputation for creating a bond that's stronger than the host wood. If that's true, and the OP has the piece that fits exactly to the broken surface, and recognizing that the repaired glue line would be almost entirely along the grain, why would you expect the Titebond repair to fail? Would it be on account of the weaker bond on the end grain of the broken surface? Or is "stronger than the host wood" too glib?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-03-2018, 09:13 PM
BT55 BT55 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 1,525
Default

I agree with yellowesty.
A Titebond repair should work. The only problem will be clamping the bridge wood in place. You could get creative with two metal bars (one inside the guitar and one on the outside and a clamp to hold them together). It only needs to be clamped tight enough to hold it securely in place while the Titebond dries.
__________________
Taylor V-Class 814ce, 717e BE WHB, 520ce, 454ce, 420 Cedar\Maple, T5z Classic
Martin D18E Retro
Cordoba C10 Crossover
Emerald X20
Rainsong H-OM1000N2
Voyage-Air VAD-04
Custom Les Paul
Hot Rod Deville 410, Fishman Loudbox Performer
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-04-2018, 06:33 AM
LeightonBankes LeightonBankes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 282
Default tough to get clamp pressure right there

but the big question is; Why did it break in the first place? If it is a cheap guitar, the answer may be that the slot was not routed on an angle, like it should be (or the saddle is loose in the slot) making a new bridge would cure whatever problem caused it, gluing it back will only prolong it's life a little and it will break again (unless you address the reason why it broke)
__________________
disclaimer I don't know anything, everything I say is a guess, estimate, hearsay, or opinion. For your safety, don't assume anything I say is a fact. Research
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-04-2018, 05:42 PM
peter.coombe peter.coombe is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Bega, Australia
Posts: 138
Default

Quote:
but the big question is; Why did it break in the first place? If it is a cheap guitar, the answer may be that the slot was not routed on an angle, like it should be (or the saddle is loose in the slot) making a new bridge would cure whatever problem caused it, gluing it back will only prolong it's life a little and it will break again (unless you address the reason why it broke)
Agreed. Looking at the picture, the saddle extends right across the front of the bridge, there is no wood at the ends. This means in front of the saddle the only thing holding it together is cross grain strength. This is probably one reason why it broke, and there may be other reasons as well. Gluing it back together, whether it is superglue or Titebond is likely to be a temporary fix only. A temporary fix is fine if that is all you want and expect, but a permanent fix requires a bridge replacement that addresses the reasons why it broke in the first place.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-04-2018, 06:27 PM
Placida Placida is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,506
Default

Thanks for all the replies - much appreciated! Keep the opinions coming please.

I don't know this, and neither does the seller because he bought the guitar in this condition, but I suspect that somewhere along the line the saddle was replaced with one that was thinner than the slot. The looseness would cause the lateral force on that front strip of rosewood that is a common cause of this issue, I believe.

If I end up replacing the bridge does anyone have a local (US) source that sells rectangular rosewood bridges? I don't want to order one of those iffy-looking bridges from China on eBay, and wait until June to get it.

Here's a photo of the actual guitar.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-04-2018, 07:24 PM
Guest 1928
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The chances of finding a good fitting replacement bridge is slim to none. Your best bet is to make a replacement bridge. Of course that is expensive if you have someone do it, but it's the norm in vintage instrument repair.

If I wanted to minimize my effort, I'd glue that bridge back together, possibly with HHG, though I might be inclined to use CA. I'd have to ponder that a bit. Either way, I'd then fit a saddle as cleanly as possible with no gaps, but also not forcing it into the slot and I'd glue the saddle also. Gluing the saddle will strengthen the whole assembly. Back to vintage guitars, this is the norm for some models so we know it works.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-04-2018, 07:56 PM
Placida Placida is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,506
Default

Gluing the saddle sounds like a great idea Todd. It makes perfect sense that bonding everything together will result in the strongest repair possible. And should it fail I still have the option of having a new bridge made to fit.

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-04-2018, 07:58 PM
Zigeuner Zigeuner is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,116
Default

I would also used Hot Hide Glue. Once clamped and permitted to dry for a couple of days, it would be fine. The key would be to make a saddle with a tight fit. It probably broke due to a loose-fitting saddle.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-04-2018, 08:37 PM
GHalliday GHalliday is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Placida View Post
Gluing the saddle sounds like a great idea Todd. It makes perfect sense that bonding everything together will result in the strongest repair possible. And should it fail I still have the option of having a new bridge made to fit.

Thanks!
Todd is correct the bridge can be repaired first and then a well-fitting saddle should be glued in. Many manufacturers glue saddles in on through-saddle bridges.

If a new bridge needs to be made at some point, this is not a difficult bridge for ant luthier to make. A similar bridge can be made that is stronger.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-05-2018, 01:13 PM
Rodger Knox Rodger Knox is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Baltimore, Md.
Posts: 2,431
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowesty View Post
I don't take any exception to Peter's response, but it brings up a question:

Titebond glue has the reputation for creating a bond that's stronger than the host wood. If that's true, and the OP has the piece that fits exactly to the broken surface, and recognizing that the repaired glue line would be almost entirely along the grain, why would you expect the Titebond repair to fail? Would it be on account of the weaker bond on the end grain of the broken surface? Or is "stronger than the host wood" too glib?
The wood failed once, there's no reason to believe it won't fail again if it is reglued. The glue joint may be stronger than the wood, but there's still wood on both sides of the glue joint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeightonBankes View Post
but the big question is; Why did it break in the first place? If it is a cheap guitar, the answer may be that the slot was not routed on an angle, like it should be (or the saddle is loose in the slot) making a new bridge would cure whatever problem caused it, gluing it back will only prolong it's life a little and it will break again (unless you address the reason why it broke)
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter.coombe View Post
Agreed. Looking at the picture, the saddle extends right across the front of the bridge, there is no wood at the ends. This means in front of the saddle the only thing holding it together is cross grain strength. This is probably one reason why it broke, and there may be other reasons as well. Gluing it back together, whether it is superglue or Titebond is likely to be a temporary fix only. A temporary fix is fine if that is all you want and expect, but a permanent fix requires a bridge replacement that addresses the reasons why it broke in the first place.
Also correct.
__________________
Rodger Knox, PE
1917 Martin 0-28
1956 Gibson J-50
et al
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-05-2018, 03:07 PM
Placida Placida is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,506
Default

I could deepen the saddle slot another 1/16" to make the whole thing a little stronger. Would it hurt anything? There's plenty of thickness in the bridge to still leave plenty of wood underneath the slot.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-05-2018, 04:20 PM
phavriluk phavriluk is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Granby, CT
Posts: 2,913
Default

Comment to OP: Any change in the height of the saddle in relation to the fingerboard means that the string height has been altered. Time for a person skilled at saddle creation/guitar setup to get involved.

Speculation can continue indefinitely; I suggest a visit to a skilled luthier who will make a bridge that won't break and will allow the guitar to be optimally set up. The new bridge doesn't need to match the existing one, so long as it completely covers the existing bridge area. This also allows the bridge to be located in the best possible place for correct intonation to be established.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-05-2018, 05:08 PM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,082
Default

Martin glued the through saddles originally, using hide glue.
If I did deepen the slot, I would not deepen it all the way to the ends. The saddle can then be fitted by cutting notches in each end.
I would glue the bridge back together with epoxy or super glue, then glue the saddle with hot hide glue. That way, the saddle can easily be removed with a little heat.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Build and Repair

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=