New redesigned Emerald X20! - Page 6

Methos1979 · #76 08-03-2020, 03:08 PM

So of course the next question is when will the X10 and X7 get the new bridge and fretboard designs!

byudzai · #77 08-03-2020, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl49

I have often said that carbon fiber guitars are the perfect test bed for direct comparisons. They do not depend on that wildly variable material called "wood". Two guitars literally come out of the same mold using the same CF fabric and layup process (although in this case the new X20 would have a slightly different mold for the bevels and maybe the bridge).

I don't see how pinless or pinned bridges would make much difference in vibration transfer to the top. The string is either firmly anchored or not. Maybe this will become the CF version of the Great Bolted vs. Dovetail neck debates.

My experience playing my X20 next to Jim's has stayed with me -- they sounded completely different. Made me wonder if the idea that "CF is never-changing" is entirely accurate. Lots of rigid things change over time. Also, the inside surface of emeralds is soft and fabricky, lots of opportunity for change there.

seamusknives · #78 08-04-2020, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byudzai

My experience playing my X20 next to Jim's has stayed with me -- they sounded completely different. Made me wonder if the idea that "CF is never-changing" is entirely accurate. Lots of rigid things change over time. Also, the inside surface of emeralds is soft and fabricky, lots of opportunity for change there.

You've stated this before and I've contemplated it since the day you visited with your Emeralds. Besides your X20 differing with a veneer, I've wondered if mine having a larger neck with it's 1-7/8 inch nut and 2-5/16 inch spacing at the bridge might contribute to a different sound quality. So many little variables!

David Eastwood · #79 08-04-2020, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamusknives

You've stated this before and I've contemplated it since the day you visited with your Emeralds. Besides your X20 differing with a veneer, I've wondered if mine having a larger neck with it's 1-7/8 inch nut and 2-5/16 inch spacing at the bridge might contribute to a different sound quality. So many little variables!

Were different strings perhaps a contributing factor?

Earl49 · #80 08-04-2020, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byudzai

My experience playing my X20 next to Jim's has stayed with me -- they sounded completely different....

My Rainsong WS-1000 has not changed perceptibly since brand new in summer 2001, nor is it perceptibly different from a friend's who was built one year later. It has logged a LOT of play hours and gig time, and that is the only long-term CF experience I have. Everything else is five years old or less. On principle I would discount the internal surfaces - the depth of the porosity can only interact with very short wavelengths, which lie far above the human hearing range. Your dog or cat might care, but no adult ear could hear that.

But I'm also a guy that doesn't think the slightly arched back of a GS Mini or a Guild makes a real difference in the sound produced by the guitar. (Some people are sure that makes a HUGE difference). That does not track with what I know about room acoustics. Making the rather big assumption that the behavior of sound waves inside a guitar body is similar to those in a room, just scaled down. We could really get off into the weeds on that topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamusknives

You've stated this before and I've contemplated it since the day you visited with your Emeralds. Besides your X20 differing with a veneer, I've wondered if mine having a larger neck with it's 1-7/8 inch nut and 2-5/16 inch spacing at the bridge might contribute to a different sound quality. So many little variables!

Fascinating discussion. Was it the neck and some resonance, the veneer, player technique, string type, location within the room, individual perception, or ???? I suppose there could be subtle differences in the lay-up or batches of CF cloth and resin used from one year to the next. Luthiers say that specific examples of spruce can vary in stiffness and modulus by 25% or more and still be considered "excellent grade" for building purposes. That is why hand builders tap tune and shave braces, adjusting for the properties of that specific piece of wood.

I would expect two examples of an X20 to sound remarkably similar. Guess I will find out for myself in a few months when my new custom X20 (new version) gets here. Then I can compare it directly to my 2016 version of the X20. Even so, they won't be exactly alike. The custom will be the new enhanced version and short-scale. I really hope that it sounds like my current X20, whose tone works great for me.

ceciltguitar · #81 08-04-2020, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methos1979

So of course the next question is when will the X10 and X7 get the new bridge and fretboard designs!

And when will the Amicus get all these upgrades?

esimms86 · #82 08-04-2020, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl49

My Rainsong WS-1000 has not changed perceptibly since brand new in summer 2001, nor is it perceptibly different from a friend's who was built one year later. It has logged a LOT of play hours and gig time, and that is the only long-term CF experience I have. Everything else is five years old or less. On principle I would discount the internal surfaces - the depth of the porosity can only interact with very short wavelengths, which lie far above the human hearing range. Your dog or cat might care, but no adult ear could hear that.

But I'm also a guy that doesn't think the slightly arched back of a GS Mini or a Guild makes a real difference in the sound produced by the guitar. (Some people are sure that makes a HUGE difference). That does not track with what I know about room acoustics. Making the rather big assumption that the behavior of sound waves inside a guitar body is similar to those in a room, just scaled down. We could really get off into the weeds on that topic.

Fascinating discussion. Was it the neck and some resonance, the veneer, player technique, string type, location within the room, individual perception, or ???? I suppose there could be subtle differences in the lay-up or batches of CF cloth and resin used from one year to the next. Luthiers say that specific examples of spruce can vary in stiffness and modulus by 25% or more and still be considered "excellent grade" for building purposes. That is why hand builders tap tune and shave braces, adjusting for the properties of that specific piece of wood.

I would expect two examples of an X20 to sound remarkably similar. Guess I will find out for myself in a few months when my new custom X20 (new version) gets here. Then I can compare it directly to my 2016 version of the X20. Even so, they won't be exactly alike. The custom will be the new enhanced version and short-scale. I really hope that it sounds like my current X20, whose tone works great for me.

While I sincerely hope that you’re over the moon when your new X20 arrives, I would imagine that it would have to sound different in some way from your old one unless your 2016 model also had a short scale.

Earl49 · #83 08-04-2020, 01:09 PM

No doubt it will be a little different, I'm just hoping not dramatically so. I would not have ordered a custom replacement if I could get used to using a capo on the first fret all the time. Short scale has become important for my playing comfort these days. I can afford to keep both, so both can stay if they earn their space in the roster. The stock 25½" scale may be reserved for altered tunings, for example. Back when I performed, it was not unusual to have three guitars on stage in three different tunings.

RP · #84 08-04-2020, 02:32 PM

I wonder if the X20-12 will see these changes....

David Eastwood · #85 08-04-2020, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RP

I wonder if the X20-12 will see these changes....

According to the comments on the release video, these changes are confined to the 6-string version only. No 'for now' qualifier...

Earl49 · #86 08-04-2020, 03:16 PM

Why wouldn't it? Alistair did not say specifically, but I don't see why the X20-12 would not also get the same updates. It is basically the same guitar with 1-7/8" nut width and twelve holes in the bridge. Part of the reason that I went custom on it (and now on the matching X20 currently under construction) was to get the shorter scale. That 24.6" scale worked out great for playing comfort on the twelve.

My X20-12 also had only 20 frets instead of 24, something that the Chimaera has on its twelve string side. The new scalloped fret board end negates my need for a shorter fret board. In the end, my new custom X20 will only be short scale and with no pickup (but surface prepped inside for a K&K).

Earl49 · #87 08-04-2020, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eatswodo

According to the comments on the release video, these changes are confined to the 6-string version only. No 'for now' qualifier...

You answered while I was typing. I missed the "not for the 12" part. I stand corrected. I could still edit away my previous post, but may as well leave it there.

bsman · #88 08-04-2020, 03:20 PM

I look to be coming into a bit of money over the next few months, and I am thinking an X20 or X20-12 may be in my future...

Earl49 · #89 08-04-2020, 03:46 PM

Well, I certainly won't dissuade you. I have a stock X20 as my favorite daily player, a custom X20-12 described above, and now a third X20 custom to exactly match the twelve string in the works. I'm a big fan of the X20...... Just ask the four Taylor guitars already sold, two remaining (but very nervous) Taylor's, and the Rainsong WS-1000 that almost never gets played any more.

It is possible that the stock X20 might eventually move on, if the bond is strong with the new custom one. Just how many green X20's does one guy need?

It will be the sixth Emerald in the house when it gets here. The X30 has been promised to a friend who desperately wants it but so far has not raised the cash. One of my wife's X7 woody's (version 2) is technically a spare, duplicating the koa topped one that she has -- but I'm not going to tell her that. (She likes the smaller older version of the X7 anyway over the larger V3 that is current production). Her CA Cargo is a spare to both of those X7's, but being out of production now we are not in any hurry to sell it. Sometime in the future it might be time for Crazy Earl's House o' Carbon Fiber to have a clearance sale. It certainly is easier to accumulate than to sell.

steelvibe · #90 08-04-2020, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl49

One of my wife's X7 woody's (version 2) is technically a spare, duplicating the koa topped one that she has -- but I'm not going to tell her that. (She likes the smaller older version of the X7 anyway over the larger V3 that is current production).

I've always thought there were only 2 versions of the X7- apparently I've been wrong?