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  #76  
Old 09-13-2020, 12:46 PM
AcousticDreams AcousticDreams is offline
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Originally Posted by guitarman68 View Post
Late to the party: Running a small studio for acoustic music (folk, singer/songwriter, finger style, bluegrass, blues, acoustic jazz ...) the KM184 was my first choice for almost twenty years. Preamps are Pendulum MDP-1, John Hardy, Avalon SP 737, Universal Audio 610) . Somewhere along the line I got a bit tired of the overly bright and harsh sounding trebles and started looking around: Gefell M300, vintage Gefell MV 691, Neumann KM84, Schoeps MK4 ...
I settled on KM84s and Schoeps MK4s and simply love it.
If money is an issue personally I would prefer Shure SM81 or KSM 137.
Hey Guitarman68.
I would love to hear what are the differences between your KM84's and the Schoeps MK4's in sound and use.
I just recently bought a pair of Schoeps 621's and are loving them. Have never used the KM84's. These are such highly prized mics would love to know the exact differences between them and your Schoeps.
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  #77  
Old 09-14-2020, 05:58 AM
guitarman68 guitarman68 is offline
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Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars View Post
Hey Guitarman68.
I would love to hear what are the differences between your KM84's and the Schoeps MK4's in sound and use.
I just recently bought a pair of Schoeps 621's and are loving them. Have never used the KM84's. These are such highly prized mics would love to know the exact differences between them and your Schoeps.
Hi,
to be true the difference between KM84 and Schoeps MK4 is - to my ears - so subtle that I could hardly recognize it in an A/B comparison. I love both but would say the KM 84 has some magic to it I can not describe.
From the technical side my 70s KM84s have little more self noise and lower level than the Schoeps MK4.
That's why I avoid the KM84s and always use the Schoeps when it comes to low signal level applications. Beside self noise I make no difference in when to use which.
It would be fun project to produce some comparison vid - guess I'll can do it and upload it here at AGF. Maybe it will tell me more about the difference.

Here is a comparison I did some time ago with five SDCs and one ribbon on mandolin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIUL...naFrg&index=38

For guitar I will choose stereo A/B - yes, I will work on it - stay tuned.
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  #78  
Old 09-14-2020, 09:59 AM
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ChuckS ChuckS is offline
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I haven't noticed much talk about Sennheiser mics on this forum, but I just picked up a used pair of MKH 40. They are an RF design and the MKH 40 has been around since 1985. They are cardioids, very flat extended frequency response, good off axis response, high sensitivity, and very low noise. My application is for stereo recording of solo fingerstyle guitar, in a home setting. I just started experimenting with them; they seem as I expected/hoped. They are neutral sounding, realistic to the source, with very good detail (maybe not as detailed and realistic as my Gefell M296Ss but not really sure yet). They are priced between KM184/Gefell M300 and Gefell M29x/Schoeps, at $1200 each new.

The pair of MKH40s that I bought were not originally sold as a matched pair. They came with actual frequency response measurements (smoothed / filtered compared to the not-smoothed frequency response measurements that come with Gefell mics) and though they were built about 4-5 months apart (in 2019), and originally bought at different times, the frequency response curves are almost identical, and their sensitivity at 1KHz is within 0.5dB of each other.
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Last edited by ChuckS; 09-14-2020 at 02:35 PM.
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  #79  
Old 09-14-2020, 10:11 AM
RRuskin RRuskin is offline
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Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
I haven't noticed much talk about Sennheiser mics on this forum, but I just picked up a used pair of MKH 40. They are an RF design that's been around since 1985. They are cardioids, very flat extended frequency response, high sensitivity, and very low noise. My application is for stereo recording of solo fingerstyle guitar, in a home setting. I just started experimenting with them; they seem as I expected. They are neutral sounding, realistic to the source, with very good detail (maybe not as detailed and realistic as my Gefell M296Ss but not really sure yet). They are priced between KM184/Gefell M300 and Gefell M29x/Schoeps, at $1200 each new.
The mkh series has been around since 1962. I've used the 405, 406, & 40 versions extensively on solo acoustic and have always liked the results. I love the fact that in a quiet room, they can be placed far enough away that proximity effect never comes into play. They also make great drum overheads.
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  #80  
Old 09-20-2020, 11:27 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
Point taken. I have a friend who has worked in studios for years. He dislikes th TLM 103 and C414 because of edgy brightness. I had him over and ran the ones I have through a GML preamp and he was shocked at how good they sounded.
Well if anyone knows the modern Neumann line it's you Ty. I think both you and I love the U89
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  #81  
Old 09-21-2020, 06:37 AM
Howard Emerson Howard Emerson is offline
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Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO View Post
I'm researching about small diaph. condenser mics, for acoustic guitar, to utilize them for recording acoustic guitar (primarily) and in live situations (weddings).

Everywhere I look, it seems that the Neumann KM184 is one of the best ones. I'm looking to get the best gear I can get, but I was wondering if the 184 is really better than other options. I don't know what would be these "other options".

For example, I got me a Neumann KMS105, and it's way better than my Shure Beta 87a (it was great, but the Neumann is noticeably better).

Here, in Brazil, I don't have access to these mics. I ask my father to send them to me from the US. That's why I ask you, guys, if you coud help me with this.

Thank you very much!
My engineer, Fred Guarino, owned a pair of KM-84's for many, many years.

After he sold his entire studio building & contents to Alicia Keys, he set up a new studio, and after being very disappointed with the newer KM-184's, he instead bought a pair of Warm Audio WA-84 mics.

Fred recently recorded a couple of tracks with them that'll be featured on my upcoming release, The Rhytalin Kid, and they performed admirably.

Happy hunting,
Howard Emerson
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  #82  
Old 09-29-2020, 07:16 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by min7b5 View Post
https://youtu.be/7LuQmsNXMAQ

Borrowed a friends Neumann KM 184 pair this morning and nerded out for bit trying to do a quick comparison to my Gefell M 300s pair. **This is not scientific at all, though there was a ruler involved! Yes, I know I didn’t even get completely in tune

It’s X/Y, nine inches from guitar, right over the soundhole, pointed at upper rim of guitar. Went into my Apogee Element 46, then Logic using my saved X/Y template. There’s a HP and very slight EQ tweak just to touch a few things about my very modestly treated room -I’m sure if you listen close you can hear three kids doing who-knows-what close by.. There's no compression, but did have reverb on. There’s a little limiting. Zero changes to any template setting except to try get them to the same volume.

To my humble ears these two are a lot closer I have thought having done a deep dive in internet folklore just before. Shout out to everyone on Gearslutz that say they are “night and day different,” “no comparison,” or that 184’s “are way too harsh,” etc.
Those recordings sounded very good!
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  #83  
Old 10-18-2020, 06:53 AM
Gregg Hermetech Gregg Hermetech is offline
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Still loving my (almost) consecutive serial number matched pair of KM84s from 1977, on everything! Here they are recording my acoustic:

https://xetb.bandcamp.com/album/a-leaf-must-fall

It's pay what you like, so you can download the hi res 24/96 .wav or .flac file for free if you like.

They work surprisingly well on vocals too:



Preamp on both is a Chandler TG2.

Don't discount Omni mics/capsules for acoustic too though. I was recently talking with mix engineer Stephen Barncard about David Crosby's first solo album, 'If I Could Only Remember My Name', (one of my fave albums), as I simply ADORE the acoustic guitar tones on that, and he told me he used AKG C-60s (a tube based SDC rival to the KM84), but with the Omni capsules, as it meant he could get in really close (less gain needed), with no proximity effect, and with less bleed, than the Cardioid capsules.

Neumann still make and stock the KK83 Omni capsules for the KM84 body, so I am gonna place an order for one soon.

Last edited by Gregg Hermetech; 10-18-2020 at 06:57 AM. Reason: YT link borked
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  #84  
Old 11-22-2020, 10:22 AM
j3ffr0 j3ffr0 is offline
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Chiming in here, because I remember reading this thread last month when I was thinking about a KM184. After much consideration, the most recent mic I bought is a used KM184 for about $520 with shipping, so I thought I'd report in on my findings. I'm favoring it over my other SDCs for the finger style stuff I do. What I like about it:

-Unique to this mic (within my little collection) is the way it handles the attack of a string plucked with my fingernail. I really like it. It's not too soft/poofy and not too hard/glassy/or piercing.... just sits perfectly. It's not something I was able to pick up on in any of the on-line comparisons. But comparing it first hand with my other mics, this little pleasantry is a unique quality of this mic. If this mic has any magic, for me, this is where it is. Didn't even know I was missing it until I found it.
-It's a bit less phasey when moving it around than other SDCs and certainly LDCs. Very easy to get a great sound with it, whereas some other mics have a smaller placement window where they will sound good... and sometimes you can hear the sound bouncing around under the mic grill.
-Perhaps a tad more body or larger sounding than my other SDCs. Not quite into LDC territory, but not small sounding either.
-A pretty good value all things considered for the price... especially used. No, it's not a Schoeps or DPA, but it doesn't cost as much either.

I would list what I don't like about it as well, but I can't really think of anything. I guess it could have some switches or stuff, but switches or no, I'm liking it better than my other SDCs with switches.

So for the SDCs, and for what I do I have it like this:
KM184 > SM81 > AKG460 and NT4

I still like my LDCs (KSM44, and C414XLS) and I still like a 57 now and then on the bridge/body. Right now I'm favoring the KM184 on the neck and the C414XLS on the body, but that may change some depending on what guitar I'm working with and what I'm trying to do.
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  #85  
Old 11-22-2020, 10:25 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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thanks for the review. Next, try a Schoeps CMC641.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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  #86  
Old 11-22-2020, 01:50 PM
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min7b5 min7b5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ffr0 View Post
.. After much consideration, the most recent mic I bought is a used KM184..
And I after I borrowed a friend's pair of 184's to compare with my m300's -as I posted earlier in this thread- I bought a minty used matched set of 184's for myself. I've been playing around all week with them as a spaced pair, in mid/side with a ribbon or 414XLS.. I'm very happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ffr0 View Post
.. Right now I'm favoring the KM184 on the neck and the C414XLS on the body...
That's also a solid mid/side recipe.
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Last edited by min7b5; 11-22-2020 at 11:41 PM.
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  #87  
Old 11-24-2020, 12:56 PM
arashaw arashaw is offline
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kbYnUEPXdU

I like the sound of the 184 with the ribbon in stereo.
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