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  #16  
Old 08-24-2020, 09:31 PM
blue blue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
Here's a resonator I got last March that I think is an excellent value at about $800 delivered with optional pickup installed, and it has wonderful tone and craftsmanship:

My first playing test of the Republic Duolian in Tarnished Nickel Finish is pleasurable in that the guitar sounds really good both acoustically and plugged into my UltraSound AG30, and in that the guitar is set up quite well with darn good craftsmanship.
That's a fine looking reso SpruceTop, despite its deformity. You know. The 14 fret thing. I kid! I'm a 12 fret fan myself, but you can't argue with beauty!

I've been tempted by Republic's parlor types since they first hit the market, but have been able to resist since a full size National or National clone is already a OO size. Not enough difference for me to justify another guitar.

But, yeah. Great looking guitar. Love the star at the third fret. For a brand new guitar with pickup, that's a heck of a deal.
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  #17  
Old 08-25-2020, 12:42 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Originally Posted by mercy View Post
Are there any with a wide nut? I prefer wood bodies.

If you can find one, the Estralita has a 1 & 13/16" nut width.
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  #18  
Old 08-25-2020, 09:52 AM
jbhiller jbhiller is offline
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Thank you All for the great intel.

My main impetus in looking for a resonator is to have a dedicated guitar for slide, and the resophonic sound is just a big plus. So, I could use an acoustic just as well.

Currently, I have an archtop Eastman that I raised the action on and pop on a .16 B string for the high E. That has helped immensely. I didn't want to use my J45 for slide as nut extenders or a high setup won't work as that's my daily driver.

I really appreciate the intel on the different materials as well as setup. I totally agree that the setup + your technique make the biggest difference.
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  #19  
Old 08-25-2020, 08:56 PM
Mycroft Mycroft is offline
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Originally Posted by jbhiller View Post
Thank you all! Great advice.

I really want to spend less than $1k, and part of me thinks, "can I get something decedent for $500?" I like the idea of making myself earn a real National or similar.

I want to avoid lap style for now. I also think that I won't fingerpick or flatpick much with it and will dedicate it to slide.

Have folks tried nut extenders or do you just get the action set up high?
First, read Robin Wales post very carefullt. There is a lot of good info in there.

Second: nut extenders are really meant for raising the strings for playing lap slide. The strings are to high to fret, period. Why is this important? See...

Third: don't kid yourself that you won't want to be able to fret. The entire point of bottleneck over lap slide is that you can fret AS WELL as play slide. You might want your action a little higher, but not too much. A good way to start out is to shim the nut, as Robin noted, to give yourself clearance while you learn to control the slide. A couple or three strips cut from a business card work nicely. The nice things about the strip idea is that, as you gain control, you can take them out one by one, until you find the level that you need. Or like

People have given you good pointers fora beginner instrument. It may be all you ever need. Or you may want to upgrade. Many players used higher end instruments. Nationals were fairly expensive, even back in the day. Ry Cooder played a Martin HD-28 on a lot of his most famous recordings.

Body materials and type of cone (or no cone) all effect the tone. I've a small builder spider cone with a maple body. And a small builder all wood guitar. I like the different ways that they play and feel. I would still like a metal body, single or tricone. One day...

OMMV
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  #20  
Old 08-26-2020, 08:32 AM
jbhiller jbhiller is offline
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Thanks everyone. While I knew the setup was key, I didn't realize the nuances. You've helped me see what I can do to get to the next level of playing--and that's really my goal.

I like the idea of using shims and removing them one by one as my skills get better. Control on the high E is the issue. I'm probably being a touch humble too, yet I have to admit that lower action on that high E makes clean vibrato difficult for me. It's doable but difficult.

Thanks again! I got just the intel I needed. And, that's so valuable. If I went to a store, finding folks who have all this experience is unlikely, possible but unlikely. Cheers to this group!
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  #21  
Old 08-27-2020, 05:55 AM
PeterG_1960 PeterG_1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin, Wales View Post
I did wonder if I should post on this thread as I owned a resonator guitar company for 10 years and worked with Michael Messer for 8 years. But I’m now long retired from all that.

My suggestions may be a little contrary to the general folklore surrounding reso guitars and playing bottle neck slide – so you can take it or leave it.

My first piece of advice would be to separate ‘bottle neck slide playing’ and ‘resonator guitar’ in your mind. They don’t have to go together. Bottle neck slide is just a playing style and a resonator guitar is, well, just a guitar. Round neck reso guitars were not specifically designed with bottle neck slide playing in mind, they were just built as loud guitars. The earliest squareneck reso guitars were however made for Hawaiian lap style slide playing.

You don’t need a reso guitar to play great bottleneck slide. Ry Cooder has made a career as a slide player without touching one. And the world’s most famous bottleneck slide track (or at least the one NASA sent into space for aliens to find in the future) Blind Willie Johnson’s ‘Dark is the Night, Cold is the Ground’ was not played on a reso guitar. And, of course, there was Robert Johnson with his L1. And I had the opportunity to meet with Louisiana Red and hear his tails of the greats – he played a standard Gibson J45 on stage (just mic’d) and had a collection of slides to get a different feel to different songs (copper pipe for songs by his friend Son House).

So, my non-reso guitar suggestion for bottle neck slide playing would be to find something very cheap on Ebay, mid to small bodied, with a reasonable nut width (! ¾” or above would be OK). Having perfectly level frets or a perfect neck angle does not really matter, so you can risk taking a punt on an Ebay ‘beater’. Plywood B/S would be OK as you want the least amount of overtones – the basic guitar doesn’t have to sound ‘pretty’. Generating great slide guitar tone is more in the set-up and in your hands than in the guitar woods.

You want some room at the nut as most slide work takes place 3rd to 5th fret. Folks obsess about a higher action at the 12th, but actually a little room in the lower frets will serve you better. So, tap off the nut and put a very thin shim under it. Fit medium strings. Again you want to bring down the overtones so try monel or pure nickel. Fit a 0.015 first string – tuned down to D this will give you a solid platform for your slide. Use a heavy slide – spend some money on this, it is worth it. You will build up quite a collection of slides over time as each has a unique tone. Slide playing is 80% about controlling the sound with damping behind the slide or pick blocking. As your technique improves, so will your tone and the volume you can generate.

If you do want a reso guitar then you have options:

Body type: Brass, steel or wood. 12 or 14 fret

Cone: Biscuit bridge, spider bridge or tricone

For your first reso, I would be inclined to go biscuit bridge. You’ll get more bass from a biscuit bridge guitar, and they are the most popular with blues players today. They are sort of closer in tone to a standard guitar but with that magical ‘valve amp’ drive and dynamic range potential that is the signature of a reso guitar. The round neck tricone is lovely but, personally, I think they excel as a jazz guitar providing that swing rhythm for a small band, which is sort of what they started out as being sold for. The old square neck tricone however is a lap style slide players dream. Having said that some folks love the ticone for bottleneck slide. I’ve never been that keen on round neck spider bridge guitars for bottleneck blues although I played square neck dobro in a bluegrass band for over 10 years, which is where the spider bridge is most at home in my book but some love the country twang of a spiderbridge with a bottle neck slide. The only reso I still own is a squareneck spider bridge guitar.

For the body: 12 or 14 fret doesn’t audibly effect the tone. 14 fret bodies are a little smaller but everything else is the same. Steel is a little ‘harsher’ than brass – but the tone difference is very, very subtle and I can tell you that with a well set-up reso you’d be hard pressed to tell them apart in a blind test. Don’t listen to what others say about the difference – I’ve set up around 800 or so reso guitars and know that most of the tone is in the set-up not the body metal. I’ve heard folk swear that a steel body is more traditional for bottle neck blues – well tell that to Son House!

Wood is a little more subtle, a more rounded tone. If you buy wood, go for a heavy plywood build – the body is a speaker cabinet. The old wood bodied 1928/29 Triolian was a wonderful guitar – a few makers are copying it. If you go for wood, search out something like that.

My personal choice for a first purchase reso would be a 12 fret biscuit bridge in either painted steel or nickel plated brass – they are the classic workhorses. You don’t need a 14 fret or a cutaway to give you more room at the 12th as by the time you get up there you’ll see that players bring their thumb round to damp behind the slide so you are basically playing with a flat left hand on the fretboard rather than holding on to the neck.

I’m not going to comment on brands save to say that the ‘ very best’ are not made by Don Young at National Resophonic (although they are lovely guitars) but by Mike Lewis of Fine Resophonic in Paris.

At the budget end of the market there are a lot of choices – you do need to play a few to make up our mind. The bodies and cones from China are very good, the necks are variable and they all need a good set-up (which is more extensive that a standard acoustic guitar set-up). Who knows, you may find an old one of mine second hand somewhere:

Robin, honestly I cannot thank you enough for your sage advice. I've been listening and reading up and researching resonators for both fingerstyle and slide work and your reply here is invaluable, driven as it is by years of experience. I've been looking at the Messer 12 fret blues 28 amongst others up to around the £1000 mark, but I'm more comfortable at the £600 level or so. I'm not averse to second hand, but I doubt I'll find a National in the UK at my maximum spend of £1500! (I did just spot an Estralita Deluxe 2007 for sale for $2000 in Vermont).

I particularly liked your reminder that you don't need a resonator for slide work!

All the best

Peter
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  #22  
Old 08-27-2020, 06:03 AM
PeterG_1960 PeterG_1960 is offline
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Default Estralita ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
If you can find one, the Estralita has a 1 & 13/16" nut width.
This morning I spotted an Estralita Deluxe 2007 for sale in Vermont. $2000 Plus shipping. It's lovely too. I was going to post the link but then thought 'what if I decide to buy it?' haha



http://https://themusicemporium.com/...7#&gid=1&pid=1
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  #23  
Old 08-27-2020, 08:14 AM
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Robin's post is excellent!
I have been playing bottleneck for about 15 years and wish I had known all this then...

I went through numerous acoustic guitars, a few Nationals along the way.
Finally found the ONE, a 1931 Polychrome National Triolian, with original cone, a phenomenal guitar (loud, punchy, yet sweet tone).

My other great bottleneck guitar was a 1965 LG1 that had medium action and sounded great for slide, but not great for anything else.

FYI, There is currently a National Deplhi for sale at Guitar Center in Fair Lakes, Va for $1200. I played it the other day and it sounds and plays well. As much as I hate Guitar Center, you could purchase this and have a pretty long extended return window currently due to COVID.
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  #24  
Old 08-27-2020, 10:08 AM
roylor4 roylor4 is offline
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Gretsch Boxcar. Wood body, spider reso. For the money 9sub $500) Gretsch is the brand to look at. I've had my Boxcar for 7-8 years. Sounds good, plays easy, excellent intonation.
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  #25  
Old 08-31-2020, 01:14 AM
jansch jansch is offline
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I can't remove the nut from my Brett Signature as it is glued in. I used to have a tool that was like the image,
with a tapered end and did the job well. Does anyone have an idea where to get one now?
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  #26  
Old 08-31-2020, 03:20 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy View Post
Are there any with a wide nut? I prefer wood bodies.
National Estralita (discon) or Trovador
(1.8" nut)
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  #27  
Old 08-31-2020, 11:56 AM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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Originally Posted by jansch View Post
Does anyone have an idea where to get one now?
I bought one about five years ago from Stew-Mac. I don't know about shipping to Wales, or about European sources.
https://www.stewmac.com/SiteSearch/?...-lifter%20tool

BTW I have played Mike Dowling's personal El Trovador at a guitar camp. He does a lot of slide and fingerpicking, and it was fine for standard finger style -- not a really high set up. Some technique and control of the slide is needed to avoid knocking against the neck or the frets, but that is part of the process.
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  #28  
Old 09-02-2020, 06:10 AM
jansch jansch is offline
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i experimented with putting a masonry nail under the strings at the first fret, which raises the strings and works like a capo. The sound on one guitar was
amazing. Slightly discordant honky-tonk. The other guitar sounded much the same as before.
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  #29  
Old 09-05-2020, 02:20 PM
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I've owned a Goldtone Beard squareneck for a decade now, and it has been a fine reso. As good as the high priced spread? No, but for an instrument I don't play a lot it's perfect. I think is was bought for $750 used.
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  #30  
Old 09-16-2020, 08:46 AM
jbhiller jbhiller is offline
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Hi All, I'm following back up.

I ultimately purchased a Gold Tone PBR resonator. It was $1k shipped. I tried out a Gretsch, but couldn't get a chance to play a Regal, Recording King or others. The Gretsch was great. However, I took the advice of folks on forums, youtube, and my own and went for the Gold Tone. I am thoroughly impressed.

The Gold Tone is well built and solid. Its scale is perfect. The tone is very, very good. I ditched the .12s, strings, that it came with and put on a set of Dunlop resonators in .16s--perfect. It plays perfectly in Open G--no need to tune up to Open A to increase tension.

I'm a happy camper with this guitar and it is only feeding my appetite to get better at slide. There are times when the sounds I'm making fingerpicking base lines and dropping slide licks over them is addictive. This is a great slide machine!

PS. I really can't say whether this thing is better than the other mid-tier offerings by great companies. I just couldn't find brick and mortar dealers with any meaningful selection of resonators in stock.
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