Extend minor pent to maj pent .. when .. why .. question

jasperguitar · #1 08-09-2012, 06:25 PM

If I play a minor pentatonic scale.. let's use A min pent..
A, C, D, E, G, A ...

And then connect it to a C maj pentatonic ..

C, D, E, G, A, C ..

Both have the same notes... but they sound different because the
intervals are different, root note, blah blah ..

Because both have the same notes.. and are relative, same key
signature..

Is it proper to connect them?

I tried it . .. didn't sound right.

The A maj pentatonic has a different key signature.. entirely.

But, the A maj pentatonic does start on the same root note..

A maj pent. A, B, C#, E, F#, A

Is it proper to play the A maj pent with the A min pent ?

.. I get mixed up on the pentatonic useage.

Xavierpg · #2 08-09-2012, 08:26 PM

Hey there,

This all depends on the chords you will be playing over. If you want to use both Am and AM pent over a single Am or Am7 chord it will sound "off" when you play the major third (C#) if you linger too long on it. As a side note, many players will use creative bending to kind of tease the C# by starting the bend on C# and bending down to C...but in general, using a major scale over a minor chord is not going to sound very good.

mr. beaumont · #3 08-09-2012, 08:40 PM

A minor pentatonic and C major pentatonic are synonyms...connect all you want...every position of A minor is a position of C major...no need to overcomplicate your thinking.

Generally, you're going to use minor pentatonic on minor chords and major on major...blues kinda breaks this rule, using minor over what's essentially dominant chords, but personally, I never hang on that minor third over the I chord in a blues...when I hear cats do that it screams "hack."

Lots of rock music just wails on minor pentatonic, even in major keys. a lot of the time it sounds like crap.

rick-slo · #4 08-09-2012, 08:43 PM

Hard to think of a case where you would go straight from A to Am or vice versa except as a brief passing chord say when using a chromatic scale.
Am to C pentatonic and vice versa is common. You don't have to start on the root note when you switch scales. Let your ear be the judge.

mr. beaumont · #5 08-09-2012, 08:47 PM

Major to minor is very common.

Try major over the I chord in a blues, then minor over the IV.

So in a blues in A, play Amaj pentatonic over the A (A7) chord, then play A minor pentatonic over the D (D7)...

rick-slo · #6 08-09-2012, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Major to minor is very common.

Try major over the I chord in a blues, then minor over the IV.

So in a blues in A, play Amaj pentatonic over the A (A7) chord, then play A minor pentatonic over the D (D7)...

I was commenting only on the case of going from A to Am, and by extension to any other key root major to key root minor ... I to Im or vice versa.

JonPR · #7 08-10-2012, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasperguitar

If I play a minor pentatonic scale.. let's use A min pent..
A, C, D, E, G, A ...

And then connect it to a C maj pentatonic ..

C, D, E, G, A, C ..

Both have the same notes... but they sound different because the
intervals are different, root note, blah blah ..

Because both have the same notes.. and are relative, same key
signature..

Is it proper to connect them?

They are the same notes, so "connecting" them isn't really an option. How can you connect the same thing to itself?

I suspect you're thinking of something else...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasperguitar

I tried it . .. didn't sound right.

Ah - so what exactly did you try?

The difference between A minor pent and C major pent is created in practice (mostly) by the chords you use them over. Play A minor pent on a C chord, it will sound like C major pent; play C major pent on an Am chord it will sound like A minor pent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasperguitar

The A maj pentatonic has a different key signature.. entirely.

But, the A maj pentatonic does start on the same root note..

A maj pent. A, B, C#, E, F#, A

Is it proper to play the A maj pent with the A min pent ?

In some (very common) circumstances yes.
It's the standard rock'n'roll/country rock scale choice, over an A major chord, or in key of A major.
A major pent is "inside" and A minor pent adds a couple of funky dissonances. You get the b3 - between 2 and 3 - you get the 4 (D), and you get the b7. So all together you get mixolydian mode with a passing b3: A B C C# D E F# G A. Good scale for R&R/R&B. It's also a combination of A mixolydian and A dorian. Some call it "mixodorian"

.

As mr beaumont says, you can also differentiate between the I and IV in an A blues, by using A major pent on the A7 and A minor pent on the D7. But mostly that would be a case of changing the emphasis: sticking with the same combination scale, but using C as the passing note on the A7 chord, and C# as the passing note on the D7. IOW, more A mixolydian on the A, more A dorian on the D.

Kerbie · #8 08-10-2012, 05:41 AM

You've already gotten great answers above. I guess I tend to think about that question in a very uncomplicated way. There really are no real hard and fast rules, but I agree that hanging on a note in the pentatonic that is a half-step away from a note in the overlying chord is usually too dissonant for me. The well-established exception to that is the blues... hanging on the flatted 3rd over a dominant 7 chord works great. Otherwise, I tend to keep it fairly simple and play minor pentatonics over minor chords and major pentatonics over major chords.

mr. beaumont · #9 08-10-2012, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerbie

The well-established exception to that is the blues... hanging on the flatted 3rd over a dominant 7 chord works great.

I can't agree with that...listen to the greats...they all play with that third over the I...tug it up towards the M3, hammer on from m3 to M3, slide just past m3 when playing bottleneck...

Listen to BB here...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOnzDKvn7YI

Kerbie · #10 08-10-2012, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

tug it up towards the M3, hammer on from m3 to M3, slide just past m3 when playing bottleneck...

Jeff, I agree with all of that. I didn't mean to imply that I never do anything with the flatted 3rd in the blues. To me, it's the best note to bend and it's because it's reaching up towards the major 3rd. I don't disagree at all... I just don't think the minor 3rd clashes with a bluesy dominant 7th like most half-step intervals.

jasperguitar · #11 08-10-2012, 08:13 AM

Per usual.. all great replies..

jon.. beaumont.. and all ..

This is why I asked the question. I have a lead guitar book, the book is published in Australia, so there are word differences in the presentation..

Like all beginner learners.. I practice the pentatonic scales, the finger patterns, etc. The maj and min pentatonic scales and their finger patterns.

The book goes on about playing a min pent lick that then moves to a maj pent lick.. so, I was puzzled.. and then I thought ... relative min/maj. same notes..

So, I played the A min pentatonic scale, first position..

And then I extended... I went from the A second fret, G string ... to the
C fifth fret G string, and then I played the C maj pentatonic scale from there..

It sounded awful..

I kept thinking to myself .. minor is minor.. and major is major..

I do know that the min pentatonic is played over the major chord progression
for a blues type sound.. If I have this correct.. and I am playing the
progression A maj chord, D maj chord . and E 7 chord... I would play the A min pentatonic over for a solo... tell me if I'm wrong here.. as I am shaky on this ..

If I am playing the progression :.. A maj, D maj, and E 7 ...
would I, if I wanted, play the A maj pentatonic for a solo.. or change each time I changed chords..

aka .. A maj chord / A maj pent .... D maj chord.. D maj pent ..

...

I always get confused with the solo pent stuff..

...