Lowering action

[Audiowonderland]

I received a Yamaha FSX800C from Sweetwater. I am liking it very much but the action is a bit high. Can I just lift the bridge out and take some off the bottom? Any impact on the piezo system?

Denny

[phavriluk]

Try a call to Sweetwater as a first stop. Perhaps someone there can offer a good reply, or suggest what to do next. I can't speak to anything related to electricity and guitars.

And I think the part OP is referring to is the saddle, the little white part the strings rest on near the soundhole. The big wood part under that is the bridge. And without a picture and some pertinent measurements, I don't think anyone can advise OP. Depending on prior experience the strings may seem high to OP but their height may reasonable for a steelstring guitar, for example.

[Audiowonderland]

Originally Posted by phavriluk

Try a call to Sweetwater as a first stop. Perhaps someone there can offer a good reply, or suggest what to do next. I can't speak to anything related to electricity and guitars.

And I think the part OP is referring to is the saddle, the little white part the strings rest on near the soundhole. The big wood part under that is the bridge. And without a picture and some pertinent measurements, I don't think anyone can advise OP. Depending on prior experience the strings may seem high to OP but their height may reasonable for a steelstring guitar, for example.

Call an online retailer for suggestions?

Yes, I know the difference between the saddle and the bridge. I misspoke.

I appreciate your opinion on whether or not anyone can help me..

I did not ask if my action was too high. After 35 years of playing I know if the action is higher than I prefer. Measurements are irrelevant to the question of properly lowering the action with a pickup installed. I know the proper technique on a traditional instrument is to take a little off the bottom of the saddle which I have done on other instruments. What I don't know is how the Piezo system works and if there is more to this than just removing and modifying the saddle. Does the saddle just ride on top or is it adhered to it in some way for example?

[calvanesebob]

Originally Posted by Audiowonderland

Call an online retailer for suggestions?

Yes, I know the difference between the saddle and the bridge. I misspoke.

I appreciate your opinion on whether or not anyone can help me..

I did not ask if my action was too high. After 35 years of playing I know if the action is higher than I prefer. Measurements are irrelevant to the question of properly lowering the action with a pickup installed. I know the proper technique on a traditional instrument is to take a little off the bottom of the saddle which I have done on other instruments. What I don't know is how the Piezo system works and if there is more to this than just removing and modifying the saddle. Does the saddle just ride on top or is it adhered to it in some way for example?

I think the first thing should be to make sure the guitar is humidified. Once you are sure about that then check the neck relief. If it has too much bow you can adjust that and see if that lowers the action enough.

If you shave the saddle first and it turns out to be humidity or neck relief, then you can not add back what you shaved off of the saddle.

[Audiowonderland]

Originally Posted by calvanesebob

I think the first thing should be to make sure the guitar is humidified. Once you are sure about that then check the neck relief. If it has too much bow you can adjust that and see if that lowers the action enough.

If you shave the saddle first and it turns out to be humidity or neck relief, then you can not add back what you shaved off of the saddle.

No doubt about that.

I have checked the relief. It is currently in good shape but it will need at least a few more days to fully settle and I will check it again at that time. The nut slots are riding right on the edge of being cut too high. I may need to address that too but I am waiting for it to settle before I cut into anything. I am just doing my research on areas I do not have experience with in the meantime.

My Larrivee has insanely good action and I am probably a bit spoiled. I don't have the tools yet to check the frets to see if a level will be needed to get their. I hope not.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Audiowonderland

I received a Yamaha FSX800C from Sweetwater. I am liking it very much but the action is a bit high. Can I just lift the bridge out and take some off the bottom? Any impact on the piezo system?

Denny

Yes. No.

However, if the bottom of the saddle does not make equal contact with the piezo, along its length, you will get an uneven response string to string. Usually that means the bottom of the saddle must be straight and flat.

[Mirosh]

I faced your question when replacing the OEM saddle with bone on my Yamaha AC1R, which has an under-saddle pickup. There was a 0.5mm shim under the original saddle. The luthier who'd set up the guitar told me it's entirely OK to eliminate the shim. I did and, as little as I use the pickup, I don't hear an electrified difference.

I would take out the saddle and see what's there. Then do what's needed to get the action where you want it. Some prefer to keep the original saddle and any shims unchanged and put in a new saddle which they feel free to modify.

It's OK to ask Sweetwater's advice. They sold the guitar and they want happy customers! Usually get them, too, from what I read.

[Audiowonderland]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Yes. No.

However, if the bottom of the saddle does not make equal contact with the piezo, you will get an uneven response string to string. Usually that means the bottom of the saddle must be straight and flat.

I suspected that keeping the saddle bottom flat so the pressure would be equal would be a must. I will need something perfectly flat to hold the paper to assist with that

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Audiowonderland

I will need something perfectly flat to hold the paper to assist with that

You don’t. What gets the saddle bottom flat and straight is mostly technique. The abrasive surface needs to be flat enough, but the emphasis is not on how flat the surface is. A flat piece of MDF, for example is flat enough, as is a piece of float glass. A surface plate, for example, isn’t necessary.

The world’s flattest surface won’t produce a flat and straight saddle bottom if one’s technique is poor.

[Audiowonderland]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

You don’t. What gets the saddle bottom flat and straight is mostly technique. The abrasive surface needs to be flat enough, but the emphasis is not on how flat the surface is. A flat piece of MDF, for example is flat enough, as is a piece of float glass. A surface plate, for example, isn’t necessary.

The world’s flattest surface won’t produce a flat and straight saddle bottom if one’s technique is poor.

True, but something close to flat is a good start. It helps to keep it flat end to end. The hard part is not rocking a narrow saddle side to side as you work it on the paper and rounding the bottom.

[redir]

I just use MDF and glue sand paper to it. If you count your strokes and rotate the piece then it helps average out what ever natural tendency you have to work it one way or the other.

[cliff_the_stiff]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

You don’t. What gets the saddle bottom flat and straight is mostly technique. The abrasive surface needs to be flat enough, but the emphasis is not on how flat the surface is. A flat piece of MDF, for example is flat enough, as is a piece of float glass. A surface plate, for example, isn’t necessary.

The world’s flattest surface won’t produce a flat and straight saddle bottom if one’s technique is poor.

Perhaps a 20 dollar hobby bench vice can help hold the saddle at 90 degrees and sanding flush with the top edge of the vice may help with technique challenges or prevent over-sanding?

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by cliff_the_stiff

Perhaps a 20 dollar hobby bench vice can help hold the saddle at 90 degrees and sanding flush with the top edge of the vice may help with technique challenges or prevent over-sanding?

People have done that, yes.

This comes up like clockwork. The simplest, least expensive approach is to take two pieces of MDF. Put sandpaper on one of them. Lay the second piece on the sandpaper and abut the saddle against the side of the second piece. Assuming that the side of the second piece of MDF is square to its face, the side of the MDF can be used as a support to keep the saddle square to the sandpaper.

Instead of a second piece of MDF, one can use any object that has an edge square to its face - the side of a plane, a 1 x 2, a block of metal...


Some years ago, someone on this forum described their use of a shooting board for this purpose. I thought that a great idea, since I already had a shooting board, and have used that since. It is simple and quick, if you have a shooting board.

[Audiowonderland]

Originally Posted by redir

I just use MDF and glue sand paper to it. If you count your strokes and rotate the piece then it helps average out what ever natural tendency you have to work it one way or the other.

Good idea. Do you work your way through multiple grits?

[Audiowonderland]

Originally Posted by cliff_the_stiff

Perhaps a 20 dollar hobby bench vice can help hold the saddle at 90 degrees and sanding flush with the top edge of the vice may help with technique challenges or prevent over-sanding?

That is an exceptional ideal. Harbor Freight should have options for one of those.