SG versus Les Paul, sound and feel?

[BoneDigger]

Although they look significantly different, they do actually share many characteristics. For those who own or have played both (Drew??), what are your thoughts on the pros and cons of one versus the other. They often share the same pickups, bridge, and hardware. The LP is heavier and usually has a maple cap, the SG may have more neck dive but is lighter. How would you compare the tone of each? If you had a blind test, could you pick out one versus the other by sound alone? If so, what aspect of the tone would you pick up on?

[Bob Womack]

I'll try to take this on for you. I have both including an SG Standard '61 reissue. Let's assume that we are comparing guitars with humbuckers. Firstly, the SG has a solid mahogany body and a neck that joins the body at the 21st fret. As a result of the suspended neck the typical SG neck has beefier shoulders than the typical LP. The LP has a mahogany body with a maple cap and the neck joins at the 16th on the bass side and the 19th in the cutaway on the treble side. One result is that the SG's neck extends futher away from the player's body than the LP. You'll often see players use a strap and push the body out to the right side a bit to bring the first few frets closer. By contrast, a heavy LP has its weight in the lower bout so players often wear a strap and the guitar is often played at a 45' angle, lower bout low. If you find a lower weight one it will be more balanced. At 9.8 lbs, my '70s LP has to be played on a strap, my 7.8 lb chambered 2018 is quite balanced on the leg.

And now the sound. The LP is known for its girth and sustain. The maple cap really makes a difference. The guitar's sustain period is nearly as loud as the attack. However, a lighter LP with under-wound pickups can approach some of the snap of a Tele while still holding onto the girth. The SG doesn't have the girth of the LP but makes up for it with a snarl the LP doesn't have. It also offers a mahogany "ping" when played clean. These two guitars are remarkably different when you aren't playing with loads of gain.

Well, I hope that helps a bit.

Bob

[Gordon Currie]

Bob just covered it pretty well.

I'll add that the SG in my experience seems more alive, and I greatly prefer it to a Les Paul. I found the tones available to be more versatile.

One thing I found was the more effects you put on the Les Paul, the more anonymous the tone. Maybe because of the 'girth' thing that Bob mentioned.

Finally, the weight thing. I played a borrowed 57 goldtop for a few years, and while it was a sweet instrument, I can still feel my neck and shoulder ache 45 years later

SGs are relatively light.

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

The LP has a mahogany body with a maple cap and the neck joins at the 16th on the bass side and the 19th in the cutaway on the treble side. One result is that the SG's neck extends futher away from the player's body than the LP.

Another thing that affects the seated comfort of the two guitars is the location of the leg cut. The LP leg cut is well to the left, up near the neck pickup. I can’t play an LP or similar guitar comfortably while seated because the leg cut pushes the body too far to the right, causing my picking hand to naturally land on the neck pickup instead of between the pickups. It brings the nut closer to me, so cowboy chords are an easy reach, but I have to reach around my gut to get to the upper frets, which I find incredibly uncomfortable. This is with the guitar on the right leg - I’ve tried the classical position with the guitar on the left leg and I’ve tried with a strap so the guitar really isn’t on my leg, but I never liked either approach. I had to unload a really awesome, really expensive PRS a few years ago because of this leg cut position.

The SG, on the other hand, has its leg cut farther to the right than most guitars, almost to the right of the bridge pickup. The Firebird and some other offset guitars are like this as well. This pushes he cowboy chords further away but brings the upper frets gloriously into play, easily to reach and very accessible. If I’m playing around the 4th or 5th fret, I have to be conscious to to grab the 6th or 7th when I’m playing the SG because that’s where my hand would naturally go. I’m not a humbucker guy, but the LP and SG are my favorite guitars for P90s. Love em both - I slightly prefer the sound of the LP but vastly prefer the comfort of the SG.

I played LPs a lot as a kid and never noticed any of this because I usually played standing, with a strap. As an old guy, playing seated, LPs are off the table for me and I’ve discovered how much I like SGs. I’m mostly a strat guy (the strat and tele have a more neutral leg cut and are fine for me seated) but an SG with P90s is my “other” electric. Don’t play it that much, but I love it when I do... And the seated position of the guitar is no small part of that...

-Ray

[rmp]

I have a few of each, after reading Bob's post, I would say that explains it quite nicely.

About Neck Dive and SGs, the right strap makes all the difference.

Brushed leather, or suede, will stop that. OTOH "Seat Belt" straps, just don't work with SGs.

The really huge difference is access to upper frets, and if you're used to playing a paul, when you pick up an SG, you need to be pretty aware of the "added real estate" on the neck up past the 12th fret. Wide interval/fast position changes will have some interesting results if you're not paying attention.

[ChrisN]

I've no SG experience, but I've happily played my LP on my right leg with a support cushion - these come in 2 sizes (I forget which one I have). The Performaxe is also good for LP lap play, but the less expensive cushion works fine. Bring a small couch cushion to a guitar store and try it out.

[Wooly]

I have owned a Les Paul but never an SG.

I have read that Angus Young from AC/DC plays a SG because of being of smaller stature and a bad back. Therefore the lighter weight SG.

I have also read that because of a light body, the weight of the neck wants to dip the neck down. Just what I read. Maybe not true.

[BoneDigger]

Thanks for the replies! I am considering a guitar for the use of a Roland synth, and these are the two I'm debating for it. They have the same bridge layout which will work with the mount provided for the Roland GK3. I was just wondering about general thoughts on the comparisons between the two. As I noted, I realize there is generally a lot of differences, but surprisingly a lot of similarities too.

[Bob Womack]

Mine is on a Carvin TL60T.



I used the clamp and double-sided tape method so it can be removed.

Bob

[Dru Edwards]

Todd, great thread (and thanks for the call out). I own multiple of each including some Les Pauls/SGs that even share the same pickups. To keep it simple, I find that the Les Paul gives more "thump" on the lower strings than the SG does. I also find the Les Paul sounds "fuller", which doesn't mean it's better.

I find the neck pickup sounds deeper on a Les Paul (and perhaps muddier depending) because the pickup location is further away from the bridge than on an SG. I just measured, there's a 1/2" difference. Some will prefer that, others will not so it's not "better" just different. Think "Sweet Child O' Mine tone on the Les Paul neck pickup.

The neck dive has already been mentioned but I don't have an issue. If I remove my hand from the neck than the guitar may drop some but I never feel like I'm "holding" the neck up. The material that you use for your strap makes a difference.

Better fret access on an SG, considerably better access.

And the SG feels so much better on my shoulder.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

Thanks for the replies! I am considering a guitar for the use of a Roland synth, and these are the two I'm debating for it. They have the same bridge layout which will work with the mount provided for the Roland GK3. I was just wondering about general thoughts on the comparisons between the two. As I noted, I realize there is generally a lot of differences, but surprisingly a lot of similarities too.

I've played around with Roland guitar synth technology for three decades and have a few opinions.

Ease of access to frets and a super-stable neck are two things you'll want in a guitar for this.

The SG wins easily for access.

The LP probably has a more rigid neck.

I've gone for headless designs for guitar synth, as fretboard access and stable necks are part of their appeal.

[FrankHudson]

I have both, and have played various sorta-alikes. The differences in sound qualities between various electric guitars are there, but they are subtle compared to the wide range of sound differences when considering the whole system an electric guitar is played through.

In my case my SG has Firebird style mini-humbuckers and the LP full-sized 57 Classics. So my two sound different played clean. I respect Bob W. opinions on most anything sound-related, but speaking for myself, I doubt if I could tell the difference between an SG and LP with same pickups adjusted the same on two recordings featuring typical rock music style gain. More important is your personal "fit" with the different bodies and even individual things like neck carves or fret sizes.

Interesting that you mention Roland MIDI pickup use. It just so happens that my Roland MIDI pickup is on a DeArmond S73 (sort of a copy of the Guild S100, which in turn is a sort of a copy of a Gibson SG). Given that I have been through a lot of electric guitars over the years why is the Roland MIDI on that guitar?

1. I like the neck. Being happy with the neck is a big deal in deciding what guitar to use for MIDI.
2. I can make some fretting reaches easier on a Gibson scale than a Fender scale
3. Though the S73 has a thicker body than the SG, it still had a bit of neck dive, but the weight of the Roland pickup control module helps balance things. And yes, a non-skid strap is a good thing with an SG.

[Dru Edwards]

I also have an LTD EC-1000 which is a Les Paul clone. My SGs sound closer to my Les Pauls than that EC-1000 does. Don't assume a clone will take you there - it may get you close or it may not.

[M Sarad]

I have an SG with ThroBak TTop PAFs and a Les Paul Special with P90s. My first Les Paul was a '52 Gold top with P90s and the odd tail piece. I never found it easy to play and traded it in for a '62 ES 335.

I've tried lots of Les Pauls over the years and never like the weight or feel. It seems they break up later due to the heaviness. That being said, I would happily take a Leroy Parnell, Mike Bloomfield,Warren Haynes or other signature model.

I could make it work

[guitararmy]

I have noticed that whenever I play my SG, I end up a fret or two off because of where the neck joins the body...