Ego and your driving force to perform in public

[Osage]

Originally Posted by thestubbyone

Interesting that you were in groups where no leader arose to direct the group. One group I was in before covid was formed and one guy, a singer and guitar player immediately took over dominance in the group. I was a singer and player too and sometimes we clashed on what songs we would do. He wanted to solo sing almost all of them and did not have any interest in singing harmony with me. On the other hand, he was a dedicated leader and spent more time than everybody else in the group combined working on things about the group including opening his house up for us to practice and jam. So now in retrospect, contemplating the difficulties in getting a group together and keeping it together, I have a lot of respect and admiration for what he did.

The band I'm in now has no leader. We've all been playing in bands forever and know what we're doing and enjoy it like this. We don't vote or anything like that but if something really bothers someone, we don't do it. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, both musically and otherwise, and we try to play to them, if that makes any sense. All of us write and sing and we all are cool with someone else coming up with ideas/parts etc... for the others songs. It helps that other two guys are good friends.

[thestubbyone]

Originally Posted by Osage

The band I'm in now has no leader. We've all been playing in bands forever and know what we're doing and enjoy it like this. We don't vote or anything like that but if something really bothers someone, we don't do it. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, both musically and otherwise, and we try to play to them, if that makes any sense. All of us write and sing and we all are cool with someone else coming up with ideas/parts etc... for the others songs. It helps that other two guys are good friends.

you got a great group there. Stay with it,. I am jealous! OOPS! there goes my ego again....

[thestubbyone]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

I have done just about all my performing solo. I did do a professional stint with our entire family, wife and children, which worked out extremely well. Everybody, even the kids, had a say in things. I don't remember any issues. Then again, I was the dad and the main songwriter, so I suppose everyone else essentially deferred to me.

- Glenn

A family affair... its hard to beat that

[Jaxon]

I did a sold out solo show yesterday.....and my 2 pups ran off right after I started, talk about a crushed ego and I gave them treats also

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Jaxon

I did a sold out solo show yesterday.....and my 2 pups ran off right after I started, talk about a crushed ego and I gave them treats also

^^^^^Love it. That puts the reality for most of us into perspective. LOL!

I played in a bluegrass band with some dreadful ego/issue clashes. I saw my job as smoothing the path and trying to get the best out of the band without stepping on anyone's toes. I was not the band "leader" but just had to diplomatically oil the wheels.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by thestubbyone

My perspective on ego and driving force is its an essential trait to get the nerve to perform. However, its also a very destructive force for me when it turns into a belief that you are something good or better than someone else.

There you go!

The trick - and it can be a difficult one - is to keep remembering that everyone in the band is doing their best, and playing the song their way in whatever style they feel is best. That's what you are doing too, yes?

They will notice mistakes in their playing, as well as you will notice mistakes in yours. And maybe sometimes they notice mistakes in your playing that you don't? Just as vice versa.

If you really are better than them (and they accept that too), then you have to put up with their lack of sophstication, and adjust your contribution to the whole, to make the song work as best it can, avoiding too much showing off.

IOW, it's the band performance as a whole that matters. It has to sound cohesive, as a unit. If you are the best musician in the band, showing off your chops could easily spoil the performance, not improve it. Being a "good musician" means being a respectful and sensitive ensemble player. You are not an independent voice, you are a cog in a machine.

Naturally, it's a problem if someone else in the band doesn't understand the "ensemble" role - going their own way regardless, however good or bad they are.

Ego is forgiveable in a lead vocalist - it's pretty much a requirement for the job! - but then the band all fall in behind them and support them. That's because audiences identify with a lead singer's persona in some way - he/she is singing the lyrics and melody, which is actually the whole "song" in itself. They are the ones "telling the story" and need to express it as they feel it. They have to rely on the support of the band, and not worry that a bad drummer will miss a beat or speed up, or that a good guitarist will start soloing while they are singing.

I'm not a lead singer - very rarely taking that role - but well experienced being a "sideman": usually guitar, but sometimes bass, occasionally keyboards, so I've seen it from all sides. Of course my ego is one reason I like performing in public, but it doesn't extend to extrovert showing off; I play guitar solos, but I prefer simplicity and melody to rapid torrents of notes. (I could play a whole lot faster than I generally do, but I guess my ego seeks approval for my melodic sensitivity, and not for my technical chops! )

In my current band, I do believe I am the best all-round musician - but the drummer is a better drummer than me, the singer is a better singer than me, the keyboard player is a better keyboard player than me (and also a better singer). The bass player is about as good as me technically, but I know more theory than he does (and consequently, if I was playing the bass, I might be more inventive than he is, but still to the benefit of the song as I see it, not to show off my bass playing!). Likewise the singer also plays guitar, but I am a better guitar player (as he would be the first to acknowledge).

In short, we all know our roles and perform them to the best of our ability. Sometimes I might wish the bass player played a different line, or the singer strummed his guitar differently (I often wish the singer would change his between songs banter...). Maybe sometimes they might wish I played things a little differently. But the band has been going for around 30 years, and much the same line-up for the last 20, which is testament to how well we all work together, and accept whatever differences we might have.

[Mr. Jelly]

Ego or agenda? Or is it the same thing? The rub comes when someone wants to do a song and another musician can't do it. Ouch! Then you see ego come out. Most find it hard to be open enough to admit their failings.

[rmp]

I avoid the drama.

When the egos and attitudes start to pile on, it's not for me.

I do this for fun I learned a long time ago, when it's not fun, it's better if I just exit quickly and quietly.

[rllink]

I am going to argue that there are lots of reasons for getting up in front of an audience and performing. Ego might be one of them. For a lot of musicians, it is because they prefer being participants over being spectators. I myself much prefer playing music than listening to someone else play music.

I don't have much experience playing in full blown bands, but the ones I've played in had a band leader and the band leader pretty much ran the show. Others came and went, or stayed forever. I think the major reasons that bands break up is because band members get drawn to other things in life and move on. As far as personality conflicts, sure that happens in a band, but it happens everywhere and for many reasons, not just in bands.

[acgprf]

When I was younger I played for years in touring bands. One band in particular went on for a long while with two huge egos fighting constantly. One of those musicians was in it for fame, the other for money. I loved playing the shows but I hated the lifestyle- little sleep, crap food, public restrooms, drunken crowds.

After I quit I had to ask myself why I traveled for so long. I don't have a big ego, I don't want fame, that's not what drove me. I finally came to realize I was the stereotype of a gigging musician- I had parents who didn't care at all about their children, and getting up in front of a crowd of people who were cheering for me was my way of proving my parents were wrong not to care. My parents did come to see me play once, they left half way through the show. It's a stupid reason to live such a tough life, so I quit the road.

I always felt very much at home on a stage, more at home than I ever did in my family home. Maybe that was part of it, too- band as family, disfunction and all.

[catt]

I gave up gigging 10 years ago to raise children - I was semi-pro drummer with a professional, business-owning wife. In these intervening 10 years I played occasionally with various bands (drums or double-bass) but was rarely satisfied, musically: gigging means playing music of the people (rock, country, folk...) and I'd lost interest in that after a few years. My interests have mostly been in art music idioms. I do go out occasionally and play various instruments at small, not-for-profit rehab and LTC facilities - just to share music and give time. But my gigging days are behind me. However, musically, I'm satisfied because i play (for myself) the music that I find interesting and fulfilling.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by thestubbyone

What are your experiences playing in groups where a conflict develops between band members and how do you handle it, or do you?

Since I just play for fun, when it stops being fun, I get out of the band.

Originally Posted by thestubbyone

The insider info on big name groups and their vicious disputes between each other, sometimes even on stage, is legendary.

Some. Not all.

Originally Posted by thestubbyone

My perspective on ego and driving force is its an essential trait to get the nerve to perform.

I dunno. I like performing, but I don't have the ego to be a successful artist.

Originally Posted by thestubbyone

However, its also a very destructive force for me when it turns into a belief that you are something good or better than someone else.

It sure has led to some successful careers.

Originally Posted by thestubbyone

And the fine line of keeping the good part of your belief in yourself in check from being total egotistical and obnoxious. I have found my singing is the best when I walk up to the mic and feel that in someways I am not worthy,

Heh heh. If I thought about whether I was worthy, I wouldn't bother going on stage.

Originally Posted by thestubbyone

but still not having any fear or stage fright also. What are your experiences on performing?

I give the band a chance. It it's not right, I move on, or someone else does.

[Mr.Thumbpick]

The way I see it is if you play an instrument and devote 10,000's of hours of practice alone to playing it well then it's a shame not to share that with anybody.

Another thing would be to ask how many painters would devote themselves to their art forsaking other opportunities in life (everything is an opportunity cost) etc and never show anyone their painting?

[gwlee7]

I have a recording project where I write with two others. There, whoever brings the main song idea is “songdaddy” and songdaddy rules and has final say. I also play in an acoustic duo with another guy and we sorta just “David Lindley” for each other and try to make each other’s songs “better” by backing them up. Finally I also do some solo performing and wield supreme executive power.

As far as performing, I believe having self confidence but humility at the same time goes a long way. I want to always be known as someone who is easy to get along with, on time, and knows what he’s doing without an attitude.

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by Jaxon

I did a sold out solo show yesterday.....and my 2 pups ran off right after I started, talk about a crushed ego and I gave them treats also

Dogs can be brutal critics.
Our Rusty, a four year old Aussie, sits dutifully in front of me while I play. But when he thinks the music has run its course, he stands, comes over and gives
my right hand a nose boop and a nibble. Unmistakable.
So much for "Man's Best Friend."

David