Sitka vs. Adirondack Tops

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by mjz

Yes, my mileage varies. In fact, my experiences playing both on Martin dreads is that Sitka is the more forgiving top wood in terms of hard struming. I can get an Adi topped to really break-up or over modulate fairly easily, whereas Sitka can handle more than I can give it. I've also noted that older Adi guitars are a bit better - have more headroom.

In terms of fundamentals and overtones I find new Sitka to be more complex and more lush, mostly because of all the wonderful overtones going on. To my ears new Adi is harsher and glass-like by comparision. The fundamentals just jump out and grab ya. This phenomenon is completely opposite on the prewars I've played, however. I just don't know if it's old Adi or just the old guitar. Old or new, I hear more string separation with adi than sitka.

With the exception of the prewars I've played, when I've had to choose top wood on Rosewood, Sitka wins everytime. However, I own an Adi over rosewood on a 000 that just sounds killer, and ADI over mahoganey is heaven.

But all of that is just how my ears hear it and most of my experiencing these two woods is on Martin guitars. There's a whole palette out there I've never had the pleasure to know they way I know my own guitars.

max

This is why you can't take everything to heart on the AGF.
I agree with most of what he says except the part about Sitka being more forgiving than Addy with hard strumming. JMHO.

[tippy5]

For Martin and Gibson I prefer Sitka. I think Martin has some great quality sitka. It has that compressed, warm Martin tone. I think the builder has to be trusted for his or her preferences of the bracing and the genre you want to play should be asked by the builder for his or her bracing design. I do like my only adi guitar a 2013 J45TV. My wish list for an adi-topped (10-15 years old) guit-fiddle is the amazing Froggy Bottom. I just love the sound samples I have heard with my Rokit 8's and my iMac 27" sound output.

[Kitkatjoe]

Originally Posted by mjz

Yes, my mileage varies. In fact, my experiences playing both on Martin dreads is that Sitka is the more forgiving top wood in terms of hard struming. I can get an Adi topped to really break-up or over modulate fairly easily, whereas Sitka can handle more than I can give it. I've also noted that older Adi guitars are a bit better - have more headroom.

In terms of fundamentals and overtones I find new Sitka to be more complex and more lush, mostly because of all the wonderful overtones going on. To my ears new Adi is harsher and glass-like by comparision. The fundamentals just jump out and grab ya. This phenomenon is completely opposite on the prewars I've played, however. I just don't know if it's old Adi or just the old guitar. Old or new, I hear more string separation with adi than sitka.

With the exception of the prewars I've played, when I've had to choose top wood on Rosewood, Sitka wins everytime. However, I own an Adi over rosewood on a 000 that just sounds killer, and ADI over mahoganey is heaven.

But all of that is just how my ears hear it and most of my experiencing these two woods is on Martin guitars. There's a whole palette out there I've never had the pleasure to know they way I know my own guitars.

max

Adi top breaks up fairly easily? What you say?💁🏾*♀️

[gmel555]

Originally Posted by John Osthoff

.............
One of my favorite top materials for fingerstyle is Italian Spruce. I was fortunate enough to be able to hand select piles of this stuff. It is not quite as stiff as some of the Adirondack that I have but it overtone component is so strong which is what I was looking for..........

Very interested to see you write this John. Over many years of picking up guitars in shops, I've lost track of the times that "the one" in particular that grabbed my attention that day, turned out to be an Italian Alps Spruce top. (That includes some instances of "Euro" Spruce as well. I believe it's the same species just grown in different locations.) When "window" shopping I'm usually just fingerpicking as I'm afraid of putting a pick mark on a new guitar in someone's shop.

I eventually got my Italian Spruce topped guitar, a beautiful Martin 000-ECHF in 2004 with Italian over IR, and it is indeed a lifer. I've read in several sources that the Fiemme Valley of the Italian Alps is where Renaissance luthiers Stradivari, Guarneri and Amati harvested their spruce. (Of course they didn't have a source of Sitka or Adi). I think if I ever go custom it will Italian Spruce over ____. Thanks for confirming what I thought I've been hearing for years!

Re the Op's question, I have sitka guitars that are extremely well balanced and resonant and a joy to play, but I've got to say the Bourgeois with it's torrefied Adi top (and braces) delivers a response and tone (w-a natural reverb) that shocked me (pleasantly) coming out of a small body. Is it the Adi top (torrefied) that's key or just the sum of the total on the Bourgeois? I probably won't ever play enough LDBO's with different tops to know for sure.

[Pura Vida]

Looking forward to this zombie thread coming back in 2023.

[Kitkatjoe]

Can someone tell me about the grain you want, wide or narrow, in the Adirondack tops?

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Kitkatjoe

Can someone tell me about the grain you want, wide or narrow, in the Adirondack tops?

Whether Adirondack or Sitka or other spruces, wide or Narrow isn't so much of an issue for me but I personally like at least a medium-width grain or narrower, and with as even a grain-spacing across the top as possible. Another factor is the straightness of the evenly-spaced grain--the straighter the better, Also, look for the grain to be as vertical as possible through the top as this indicates how well its quarter-sawn. Another indicator of well quarter-sawn spruce can be a lot of silking on the top. This was hammered into me over 40 years ago by my favorite local dealer. In reality, a rather ratty-looking top can also sound excellent.

I use my above cosmetic parameters when buying online to determine which of two or more guitar examples I want to buy when viewed in a "Guitar Gallery."

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by Kitkatjoe

Can someone tell me about the grain you want, wide or narrow, in the Adirondack tops?

Since most Red Spruce (Adirondack) supply was depleted during WWII, much of the newer supply will contain wider grain. While some people believe a narrow grain leads to a stiffer, better sounding top, there's no reason a wide grain top can't sound great too. It's what the guitar builder does with that material that matters most. I own a variety of Adi tops... my best sounding is a premium top with consistently narrow grain, while my most responsive top is probably my widest grain Adi top.

[vw1300]

Originally Posted by gmel555

Very interested to see you write this John. Over many years of picking up guitars in shops, I've lost track of the times that "the one" in particular that grabbed my attention that day, turned out to be an Italian Alps Spruce top. (That includes some instances of "Euro" Spruce as well. I believe it's the same species just grown in different locations.) When "window" shopping I'm usually just fingerpicking as I'm afraid of putting a pick mark on a new guitar in someone's shop.

I eventually got my Italian Spruce topped guitar, a beautiful Martin 000-ECHF in 2004 with Italian over IR, and it is indeed a lifer. I've read in several sources that the Fiemme Valley of the Italian Alps is where Renaissance luthiers Stradivari, Guarneri and Amati harvested their spruce. (Of course they didn't have a source of Sitka or Adi). I think if I ever go custom it will Italian Spruce over ____. Thanks for confirming what I thought I've been hearing for years!

I had a moment like this when I played Martin's "D Mahogany 09" model back in 2016 - I had to look up what the top was made of sure enough it was some kind of Euro Alpine spruce - agree that it's a tremendous material that is kind of a secret. I bought it, then decided I needed fewer overtones a few years later but don't regret owning that guitar. No doubt yours is a lifer.

[gmel555]

Originally Posted by Pura Vida

Looking forward to this zombie thread coming back in 2023.

WOW!!! OK, I usually catch those but totally missed this one! (Always a topic of interest though.)

[Kitkatjoe]

Originally Posted by gmel555

WOW!!! OK, I usually catch those but totally missed this one! (Always a topic of interest though.)

This topic is growing with some great observations. I'm looking forward to reading more.

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by gmel555

WOW!!! OK, I usually catch those but totally missed this one! (Always a topic of interest though.)

Yeah, it's just interesting to read its history over time, and how it resurfaces every couple of years. The issues remain the same, even though the date changes.

[jaymarsch]

Originally Posted by Kitkatjoe

This topic is growing with some great observations. I'm looking forward to reading more.

I go back over an old thread with some trepidation. If I discover that I had responded the first time around then I find out if I may have learned anything in the interim or not.

Best,
Jayne

[CAPS]

Originally Posted by Pura Vida

Looking forward to this zombie thread coming back in 2023.

Thankfully not much has happened since 2020!