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  #1  
Old 02-28-2021, 01:11 PM
wet in davis wet in davis is offline
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Default Bad set of Waverly tuners?...

I’ve got a VERY expensive Martin with gold waverly brand tuners. I believe it was my first exposure to waverly after hearing such good things about them. They suck. I just thought..over rated..and put up with it. Since I got that guitar about 10 years ago though I’ve had a number of Collings etc guitars with Waverly tuners that were awesome. So smooth and easy to turn.
What gives...? A bad set? Of the six tuners 2 or 3 barely turn, they are all super stiff..
Can they be oiled/greased? Adjusted? Should I just replace them? Thanks for any info.
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2021, 01:20 PM
phavriluk phavriluk is offline
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Default A thought

First things first, and this will cost zero dollars: I suggest OP mask off the back of the headstock so no errant screwdriver blade can damage anything, and remove the tuners and see if they turn freely on their own. Then the culprit is that the tuner shaft is binding in the headstock, time to relieve the binding. If they're stiff after getting removed, clean and lubricate. After the diagnosis of the problem, maybe the tuners can be happy, and if not replacement may be warranted.
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Old 02-28-2021, 01:33 PM
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Feste Feste is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phavriluk View Post
First things first, and this will cost zero dollars: I suggest OP mask off the back of the headstock so no errant screwdriver blade can damage anything, and remove the tuners and see if they turn freely on their own. Then the culprit is that the tuner shaft is binding in the headstock, time to relieve the binding. If they're stiff after getting removed, clean and lubricate. After the diagnosis of the problem, maybe the tuners can be happy, and if not replacement may be warranted.
Excellent Advice. How would you relieve the binding on the shaft, if that is indeed the problem?
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Old 02-28-2021, 05:34 PM
phavriluk phavriluk is offline
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Default A thought

For my very expensive guitar? Ain't going to find me practicing (guitar) medicine without a license. I think OP needs the attention of an expert, hands-on. Could be one small thing, up to a collection of small things added together. And depends on what, if any, maintenance, refinishing, restoration was done to that guitar's headstock. Different things done by an owner to a beater compared to working on a treasure, or ought to be.
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Old 02-28-2021, 05:51 PM
tadol tadol is offline
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From an earlier post by Bruce Sexauer -

“You may recall I mentioned the problem with waverly installation as emanating from their bespoke installation tool, a 2 stage drill bit. It makes the ferrule hole concentric with the post hole. The solution to the problem in installation is not so difficult, actually.

The trick is to redrill the 1/4" post hole a couple of sizes larger, 5/16" is more than needed, and then bias the tuner body a bit south, so that the post makes firm contact on the south side of the ferrule. Then drill the screw holes in the newly indicated spot, and screw the body in place. This solves the problem more than 9 times out of 10 with no more messing about required. The reason it works is that the tuner can no longer be pulled out of square to the plate by the string tension, as it is hard against the ferrule already. It is possible to over do this fix, which causes unnecessary backlash. “
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Old 02-28-2021, 09:10 PM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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Reading my quoted instructions, I don't think I mentioned filling the old screw holes with short sections of hardwood cocktail toothpicks, which is what I actually do. Break off a bit of the point so that it is a tight fit in the hole. Once you have the fit, a tiny bit of many types of glue will secure it. Once dry, cut the toothpick off flush to the head stock, then what Tad said I said. The new screw holes will be slightly south of the first screw holes.
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Old 02-28-2021, 10:04 PM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feste View Post
Excellent Advice. How would you relieve the binding on the shaft, if that is indeed the problem?
It's likely the bushings, if there's binding. Sometimes people will change tuners but leave the old bushings. You can get just replacement bushings from Stew-Mac.
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Old 03-01-2021, 07:26 AM
soma5 soma5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
Reading my quoted instructions, I don't think I mentioned filling the old screw holes with short sections of hardwood cocktail toothpicks, which is what I actually do. Break off a bit of the point so that it is a tight fit in the hole. Once you have the fit, a tiny bit of many types of glue will secure it. Once dry, cut the toothpick off flush to the head stock, then what Tad said I said. The new screw holes will be slightly south of the first screw holes.
I am not sure of what you mean by "south." Do you mean closer to the body of the guitar or closer to the end of the headstock? Thanks for the otherwise very clear description.
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Old 03-01-2021, 10:49 AM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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Originally Posted by soma5 View Post
I am not sure of what you mean by "south." Do you mean closer to the body of the guitar or closer to the end of the headstock? Thanks for the otherwise very clear description.
Unless you are “down under”, south means down . . . Yes, toward the body. New bushings will not help.
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  #10  
Old 03-01-2021, 11:04 AM
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ArchtopLover ArchtopLover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wet in davis View Post
I’ve got a VERY expensive Martin with gold waverly brand tuners. I believe it was my first exposure to waverly after hearing such good things about them. They suck. I just thought..over rated..and put up with it. Since I got that guitar about 10 years ago though I’ve had a number of Collings etc guitars with Waverly tuners that were awesome. So smooth and easy to turn.
What gives...? A bad set? Of the six tuners 2 or 3 barely turn, they are all super stiff..
Can they be oiled/greased? Adjusted? Should I just replace them? Thanks for any info.
Interesting, I had the same experience on a 1990 Gibson Advanced Jumbo I owned a while ago. It had nickel plated Waverlies with butter bean style knobs, but the tuners were AWFUL. All of the tuners were too stiff and would not turn smoothly. Not impressed, would not buy them at those prices .
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:58 AM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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Did any of the folks complaining of stiff open back tuners even try slightly loosening the machine screw on the roller shaft gear?

Many open gear tuners don't have any clutch or even washer between the roller gear and the tuner plate.
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Old 03-01-2021, 12:03 PM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
Unless you are “down under”, south means down . . . Yes, toward the body. New bushings will not help.
New bushings certainly will help if the existing bushings were leftover from whatever was installed prior to the Waverly's (and not Waverly bushings).

I've changed out many sets of tuning machines (but never built exquisite guitars like Bruce), and often see where people don't use the correct bushings that came with the machines because the new rollers "seem to fit ok."
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Old 03-01-2021, 12:23 PM
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The simplest solution if you can is to not use Waverly’s. I’ve had 5-6 expensive guitars with them and every one was tight and generally unpleasant to use. The fault is by design and for the price, that is not acceptable.
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Old 03-01-2021, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandobart View Post
Did any of the folks complaining of stiff open back tuners even try slightly loosening the machine screw on the roller shaft gear?

Many open gear tuners don't have any clutch or even washer between the roller gear and the tuner plate.
At around $175.0-to-$500.00 for a set of open back, USA made tuners, no owner should have to "loosen" the string post gear screw to make them work smoothly. This machine screw is NOT a point of adjustment. The screw secures the string post gear to the string post. This fastener should never be loosened in a properly designed and fabricated worm-gear mechanism. Sorry, at these prices anything that doesn't work perfectly should have never left the factory.
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2021, 02:54 PM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
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Just note that Waverlys that are tight when removed from the guitar will be replaced free under warranty by contacting Stew Mac.
The tension is adjusted by the threaded collar on the worm gear shaft. This threaded collar is a weak point in the design, since it has a history of loosening and causing the tuner to fall apart. In recent manufacture, the collar is secured with red Loctite (called permanent by the manufacturer), and as a result, the tension is not easily adjustable.
I have only been able to service recent Waverlys by heating the collar to facilitate the adjustment. It must be disassembled so that the threads can be cleaned with acetone and fresh Loctite applied. In addition, the plastic washers must not be lost or damaged, since replacement parts are not available from Stew Mac.

Quote:
Quote:
New bushings certainly will help if the existing bushings were leftover from whatever was installed prior to the Waverly's (and not Waverly bushings).
In my experience, 1/4" bushings are 1/4" bushings, no matter the source.
The only scenario that I can envision is the use of imported 6mm bushings, which should not work at all on a tuner with 1/4" posts.
The opposite case, 1/4" bushings and 6mm posts, can create problems due to the loose fit. But that does not apply to Waverly.

Last edited by John Arnold; 03-01-2021 at 03:14 PM.
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