Problems with Brooks Robertson Fingerpicking courses

[Bud_Spencer]

Originally Posted by JackC1

If your goal is to perform concerts, then I think a live teacher can help you because you want to develop a high degree of skill in a short time.

Even if the teacher is on classical guitar, at the most basic and fundamental, there's the practice methods (increase tempo) and finger dexterity/independence exercises (finger pick skills) that will benefit you.

Also, many classical guitarists also play acoustic and electric just like the real deal. Try a few lessons and see how that goes.

In your opinion, is better to take online lessons or live lessons?

[Bud_Spencer]

Originally Posted by JonPR

I checked him out too, and he's a great player, but I'm still curious about the level of these exercises on his course.

I found this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAf2Bi-Z218

The clickbait title is a complete lie. None of those are patterns you "need" to know. Some of them are not too hard, some quite complicated, many of them would be worth knowing. But you don't "need" to know any of them, and certainly not all 30.

The ones I heard in the clips there are not the basic or common patterns that everyone starts with. They are just some of the many infinite ways that you can adapt the basic technique. That's fine, it's just silly to call them "30 patterns you need to know". Why as many as 30? Why only 30?

Again, I can't comment on the exercises the OP is talking about, but this kind of selling just really annoys me.

I'm old school. I taught myself for free by copying the masters on record. Taping tracks, slowing them to half-speed. Now, I use software. You really don't need to spend any money at all. (OK, the software I use costs $39 after one free month, but it's the best money you will ever spend.)
Back then, of course, you actually had to buy records (if you couldn't borrow them) and 2-speed tape decks weren't cheap. And there was no video of those guys playing, so you couldn't watch fingers.
Now, music is free (I mean, you never have to pay), and the software you need is stupidly cheap. Assuming you can play guitar to some degree already, you don't need guitar lessons; there are enough youtubes where you can watch fingers - and slow them down. I can't imagine how anyone might go wrong.
So if you have any trouble learning, you just have to question your motivation... or maybe your expectations. E.g., expecting to attain pro level after a year from scratch. Or expecting all the motivation to come from a teacher...

This is why the OP's (clearly genuine) experience mystifies me. I'd like to help, but need more info.

I learned the 30 patters, they're a combination of basic, intermediate and hard ones. I didn't have too much problems to play them. I use some of them as a warm up before my practice routine. The course that is causing me problems is this:

The course that is causing me problems is this:

Fingerstyle Rolls By Brooks Robertson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5opuBoOqs8

Although I learned all the songs and exercises, I'm still working in the course songs. Right now I'm practicing this song, but I can't still play it at its normal speed, I play it at 70% of its speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68zlB1LQzcs

[Bud_Spencer]

Originally Posted by Coler

I would recommend you find a good teacher local to you. If online/remote is not working out for you, this is rhe way.

Originally Posted by jaymarsch

A few thoughts from an intermediate player who finally found the right teacher:

• Learning to master the guitar is a lifelong process
• Finding the right teacher can be really helpful because everyone learns differently
• Sometimes unlearning bad habits developed earlier can take longer to learn than the new stuff
• Be patient and kind with yourself

I have worked for months and months on changing the angle of my thumb on my picking hand to get a cleaner, beefier tone. It's tedious but worth it. I only work on it about 5 minutes a day but it starts to pay off bit by bit. I have developed a habit of playing a song that I know and love at the end of my practice. It helps me remember what I love about the guitar and the music and I end on a confident note. I hope that you can find a teacher that works best for you.
Cheers,
Jayne

Originally Posted by TBman

Post a video of 1 piece that you can't play the way you want to so we can see what your target is. If you can also post a video (a phone video will do) of you playing a small section of the same tune. We really can't give anything but general advice otherwise.

I have played steel string, on and off, since 1964, with the last 23 years uninterrupted. I started teaching myself classical last November and the first 8-9 months of that was discovering just how bad my bad habits were. It takes time to correct things.

BTW 70% of performance is ok and just stone's throw from 80%.

Finger picking patterns are just a tool to learn dexterity, they're not "must know" things.

Originally Posted by SprintBob

To the OP.

I think when we start, we tend to woodshed too much and not play enough songs. It seems like you really deep dived into Brook’s course and made it a central focus of your playing. I have one TrueFire course from Brooks that when I got it was really just too advanced for me so I put it away. 8 years later, I’m a much better player so I may take another look at it but also my style of fingerstyle playing has evolved to where it’s different than Brook’s (he being of the Buster B. Jones and Tommy Emmanuel style).

I would advise that you make any technique course like that no more than 20-30 percent of your playing time. Use the rest to play songs you like to play. Your woodshed work should also be material that hopefully compliments the songs you are working on.

Good luck and happy playing.

Dear Friends this is the course that is causing me problems.

Fingerstyle Rolls - Learn Banjo Rolls for Guitar (Course by Brooks Robertson presented by TrueFire)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5opuBoOqs8

These are some of the songs that I'm playing right now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68zlB1LQzcs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvZIgzA6lCg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvZIgzA6lCg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDt6wKfZRHE

I'm thinking about taking Online lessons but I have a problem, I don't know where to find a good teacher?

There are so many websites with teachers that it's a little overwhelming. I don't know what teacher to choose, also, I don't want spend time or money in a bad teacher.

Addtionally, I noticed that most of the pros ask 100 bucks per hour or for only 40 minutes (private lessons with Brooks Robertson or Mark Hanson have this price ). I think this is a little expensive, or maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

Is there any reliable website to find good teachers?

Is 100 bucks per hour a reasonbale price?

The next days I'll buy a decent camera and microphone to record myself. I'll share with all of you how do I play these songs.

Thanks for your help and advice.

[TBman]

The course that is causing me problems is this:

Fingerstyle Rolls By Brooks Robertson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5opuBoOqs8

I had started that course.

Key word is "started."

Working on the first exercise "Forward Banjo Rolls" was fine. Then you get to his "Etude" called "Forward Motion" which is like going 0 to 200mph in like half a second. There's about a year or two of exercises that should have been before that sort of etude. Totally ridiculous. I had paid for the yearly access membership to Truefire so I didn't have to buy the "Course" otherwise I would have complained.

There's an expectation of incremental progression that this course just doesn't come close to meeting.

If the OP is doing that Forward Motion at 70% then good for him/her.

[Bud_Spencer]

Originally Posted by TBman

I had started that course.

Key word is "started."

Working on the first exercise "Forward Banjo Rolls" was fine. Then you get to his "Etude" called "Forward Motion" which is like going 0 to 200mph in like half a second. There's about a year or two of exercises that should have been before that sort of etude. Totally ridiculous. I had paid for the yearly access membership to Truefire so I didn't have to buy the "Course" otherwise I would have complained.

There's an expectation of incremental progression that this course just doesn't come close to meeting.

If the OP is doing that Forward Motion at 70% then good for him/her.

That means that the course was poorly structured? For a moment I thought that I was the problem.

What kind of exercises should I do to play all the songs of this course correctly? or Should I look for the help of a good teacher?

Sometimes I think that these selftaught methods, courses, online lessons, etc, go too fast.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Bud_Spencer

That means that the course was poorly structured? For a moment I thought that I was the problem.

What kind of exercises should I do to play all the songs of this course correctly? or Should I look for the help of a good teacher?

Sometimes I think that these selftaught methods, courses, online lessons, etc, go too fast.

The exercises are good, a couple of the "Etudes" are faster than they should be, but you can just play them at a slower speed. I wouldn't use the 100% speed as representative of where you should be after doing the few exercises before them in the course. I don't think the course is set up as a "do this and it will get you here" sort of thing with "milestone" etudes. Usually exercises in the Truefire courses bring you to a point where you can play the Etude, but with this particular course that didn't appear to be the case. I was in a transition period between playing with flesh and then to thumb and finger picks at the time so that's why I tried this course.

I started learning classical last year (on my own) and many of the popular classical pieces were beyond my skill set when I tried them so I had to scale it back and just take it slower and try to keep things within my level. With online material (which is how I'm learning) you have to be careful not to bite off more than you can chew.

[Cypress Knee]

Two years into the guitar and you are frustrated because you cannot play like Tony Emmanuel? Join the crowd.

Can you fingerpick the accompaniment to "Take Me Home Country Roads" by John Denver yet? How about "Time in a Bottle" by Jim Croce-both parts? "Leader of the Band" by Dan Fogleberg? "Freight Train" by Libba Cotton? "Embryonic Journey" by Jorma Kaukanen? "Warm and Windy" by J.K. Loudermilk? "Scarborough Fair" as played by Simon and Garfunkel?

If you cannot play those tunes the way those artists presented them, then you need to get instruction at a more basic level first.

Pete Huttlinger (RIP) has instructional videos for Croce, Denver, Fogelberg and Lightfoot at Homespun. Jorma teaches Embryonic Journey and I think some Gary Davis blues on a recording. Happy Traum has several courses on Dylan and other iconic 60's/70's folk songs.

You have to learn those tunes first before you deep dive into Tommy stuff.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by Cypress Knee

Two years into the guitar and you are frustrated because you cannot play like Tony Emmanuel? Join the crowd.

Bud, I missed this in my response to you. The Brooks Robertson course is probably too advanced for where you are at this point from what you describe and I had a similar experience when I was at your experience level. Just put it away for now as suggested.

I’m a big fan of Mark Hanson (I’ve been a Skype student of his for over 7 years). I would recommend you take a look at his book The Art of Contemporary Travis Picking. It’s considered a classic for instructional courses to get started into fingerstyle playing. If you think you are currently beyond the level in that book, I would then take a look at the next progression in his course work called The Art of Solo Fingerpicking. I can assure you that if you work through that book, you will have an excellent foundation. Another artist that has a good instructional course for fingerstyle is Ulli Bogershausen. His book Fingerstyle Guitar is very similar in skill level to Mark’s The Art of Solo Fingerpicking but with differences in style and technique that are worth exploring.

Perhaps the best advice I ever got from Mark was to slow down just like others here advise. He gets kind of annoyed with professional players who put out instructional materials presented at playing speeds us mere mortals will never approach. I’ve learned from him how to take arrangements that are typically played fast and slow down and add some stylistic nuance to make the arrangement sound as good or perhaps even better to some listeners.

Keep enjoying the journey!