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  #31  
Old 07-13-2019, 06:10 PM
Shades of Blue Shades of Blue is offline
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Originally Posted by drplayer View Post
No apology necessary, you didn’t come across as insensitive at all. Even with perfect hearing, people hear things differently. Gary indicated he didn’t hear a significant difference either, so it’s just an individual thing. I generally dislike coated strings and have tried all the various brands (FYI, SCGC strings are coated), but Elixer Nanowebs came on my Stonebridge and for fingerstyle play they sounded wonderful. I tried other strings thinking they’d be better, but they weren’t, so that’s what I have on it now, so you never know.


It’s really more an experience thing for me. It’s an in person thing, and feel.
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  #32  
Old 07-13-2019, 06:11 PM
mistercoffee1 mistercoffee1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Groberts View Post
I pulled the Elixir Strings and installed a new set of Santa Cruz Mid Tension. They have more presence. My fiancé said they sound better and have less of a "banjo sound". LOL ...I love when a non musician describes tone.

I might translate that to mean there is a little less 'midrange?' Dunno. But here are a couple new video's of the Taylor Grand Pacific 717 with the Santa Cruz Strings.


I know the banjo sound she's referring to, and I hear it on v-braced Taylors (not so much from the playing position, but from an audience perspective). On your video, at the 1:03 mark and 1:13 mark, that characteristic banjo sound.
It is a midrangy character on the B and E strings.
It's particularly noticeable on other Youtube videos when they compare the same model V bracing vs X bracing. Not trying to start a war, but that adjective totally jumps out for me as well.
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  #33  
Old 07-13-2019, 07:17 PM
BluesKing777 BluesKing777 is offline
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I did a little recording of my Taylor 717e and then my Martin D18e to show you 'where they are at'. Elderly Elixirs on both. Both are keepers as you may hear!

Neumann KM184 7" - 8" from the 12th fret, no altered eq on mixer (A&H) and reverb/delay added.....

So a short fingerpicked blues played around the whole neck on the Taylor, then the same tune on the D18e:


https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/717e-777z1


BluesKing777.
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  #34  
Old 07-13-2019, 07:30 PM
Tnfiddler Tnfiddler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesKing777 View Post
I did a little recording of my Taylor 717e and then my Martin D18e to show you 'where they are at'. Elderly Elixirs on both. Both are keepers as you may hear!

Neumann KM184 7" - 8" from the 12th fret, no altered eq on mixer (A&H) and reverb/delay added.....

So a short fingerpicked blues played around the whole neck on the Taylor, then the same tune on the D18e:


https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/717e-777z1


BluesKing777.
They both sound GREAT, but I prefer the tone of the D-18 again!! Just cleaner than the Taylor.
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  #35  
Old 07-13-2019, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesKing777 View Post
I did a little recording of my Taylor 717e and then my Martin D18e to show you 'where they are at'. Elderly Elixirs on both. Both are keepers as you may hear!

Neumann KM184 7" - 8" from the 12th fret, no altered eq on mixer (A&H) and reverb/delay added.....

So a short fingerpicked blues played around the whole neck on the Taylor, then the same tune on the D18e:


https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/717e-777z1


BluesKing777.
Nice Job! In this example I preferred the 717. It had more snap, which seemed more appropriate for the tune.
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  #36  
Old 07-13-2019, 08:33 PM
Shades of Blue Shades of Blue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercoffee1 View Post
I know the banjo sound she's referring to, and I hear it on v-braced Taylors (not so much from the playing position, but from an audience perspective). On your video, at the 1:03 mark and 1:13 mark, that characteristic banjo sound.

It is a midrangy character on the B and E strings.

It's particularly noticeable on other Youtube videos when they compare the same model V bracing vs X bracing. Not trying to start a war, but that adjective totally jumps out for me as well.


That has nothing to do with V Bracing at all. He started playing back towards the bridge from 1:03 to 1:13. My Martin sounds that way when I do that, as well as my Taylors. I personally love that type of sound.
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  #37  
Old 07-13-2019, 08:41 PM
Shades of Blue Shades of Blue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesKing777 View Post
I did a little recording of my Taylor 717e and then my Martin D18e to show you 'where they are at'. Elderly Elixirs on both. Both are keepers as you may hear!

Neumann KM184 7" - 8" from the 12th fret, no altered eq on mixer (A&H) and reverb/delay added.....

So a short fingerpicked blues played around the whole neck on the Taylor, then the same tune on the D18e:


https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/717e-777z1


BluesKing777.


They are both nice, but the 717 is fatter, and the individual notes have more meat on them. The D18 individual notes are thinner, and the sound overall is more brilliant. I hear 100% mahogany D18 sound from the D18....well, duh you might say.

Nice playing.
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  #38  
Old 07-13-2019, 08:48 PM
Shades of Blue Shades of Blue is offline
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Originally Posted by Groberts View Post
I'm taking it to a gig tonight at Ritz Carlton. That will answer some questions for me. I am also making some 'amplified videos today as well as new videos with the Santa Cruz strings I just installed. (See?) I believe you my friend! You have not lead me wrong.


I can’t wait to hear your results. What a fun weekend for the forum!
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  #39  
Old 07-14-2019, 12:59 AM
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Amplified Taylor GP717E Builders Edition Gig Report:

The GP717E strap button placement on the flat back-side of the neck heel is foreign to me. I've never had a strap button there. I wasn't quite sure how to hang the strap but figured out to hang the front of the strap on the button instead of the back side. It did not however instill a sense of security. I was worried it might come loose. But it was fine.

Once the guitar was strapped on, it was super comfy to play and positions itself at a nice angle. Super comfy guitar to play.

The ES2 Pickup is very sensitive to picking sounds as well as fingering hand sounds such as string squeak. I was enjoying it at home, but the gig test afforded a better opportunity to learn how it would do in the real world. My Gig amp is a Bose L1 Compact (L1C). So this was the first chance to hear the GP717 though the Bose.

Its natural sounding, but a lot of the pick noises and fingerboard string squeak are a little disconcerting. The other thing I felt was the sound lacked the thickness and punch that I get from my Martin Dreads with LR Baggs Anthems.

The sound was good but I felt it lacked weight of notes and even with my Baggs Align EQ on the pedal board, the Taylor ES2 sounded a bit hollow and anemic.

Side Bar: My AGF friend "Shades of Blue" Bought a 717 withOut Taylor electronics. I would do this too and I would then have an LR Baggs Anthem installed aftermarket.

I learned once again, I am not a fan of the ES2 Pickup. It does some things well and I love the of tone shaping an volume control with the knobs on the guitar.

Long story short; I am a Baggs Anthem lover through and through. It works best for me. So if I buy a Taylor Grand Pacific, I would buy a Builders Edition withOUT Taylor ES2 Pickup. Because this guitar has the ES2, I am definitely dismissing and returning. But that is not to say I don't like the guitar. I am very enamored and impressed with it. And this particular guitar is going to make someone very happy. But I have very definitive needs when it comes to gigging and the pickup/amplified sound needs to acquit itself.



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  #40  
Old 07-14-2019, 02:42 AM
BluesKing777 BluesKing777 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groberts View Post
Amplified Taylor GP717E Builders Edition Gig Report:

The GP717E strap button placement on the flat back-side of the neck heel is foreign to me. I've never had a strap button there. I wasn't quite sure how to hang the strap but figured out to hang the front of the strap on the button instead of the back side. It did not however instill a sense of security. I was worried it might come loose. But it was fine.

Once the guitar was strapped on, it was super comfy to play and positions itself at a nice angle. Super comfy guitar to play.

The ES2 Pickup is very sensitive to picking sounds as well as fingering hand sounds such as string squeak. I was enjoying it at home, but the gig test afforded a better opportunity to learn how it would do in the real world. My Gig amp is a Bose L1 Compact (L1C). So this was the first chance to hear the GP717 though the Bose.

Its natural sounding, but a lot of the pick noises and fingerboard string squeak are a little disconcerting. The other thing I felt was the sound lacked the thickness and punch that I get from my Martin Dreads with LR Baggs Anthems.

The sound was good but I felt it lacked weight of notes and even with my Baggs Align EQ on the pedal board, the Taylor ES2 sounded a bit hollow and anemic.

Side Bar: My AGF friend "Shades of Blue" Bought a 717 withOut Taylor electronics. I would do this too and I would then have an LR Baggs Anthem installed aftermarket.

I learned once again, I am not a fan of the ES2 Pickup. It does some things well and I love the of tone shaping an volume control with the knobs on the guitar.

Long story short; I am a Baggs Anthem lover through and through. It works best for me. So if I buy a Taylor Grand Pacific, I would buy a Builders Edition withOUT Taylor ES2 Pickup. Because this guitar has the ES2, I am definitely dismissing and returning. But that is not to say I don't like the guitar. I am very enamored and impressed with it. And this particular guitar is going to make someone very happy. But I have very definitive needs when it comes to gigging and the pickup/amplified sound needs to acquit itself.




Looks like a nice place to play the night!

How long did the 717e get played?

I see you are the Anthem fan and won’t be deterred, but for others reading this, my 717e with ES2 sounds fabulous through my Tonedexter. I already owned it before buying the 717, but I was reading about the ES2 through the TD in the AGF Amp section and I even asked a few questions. I was assured that the ES2 is a preamped and added controls unit similar in design to the K&K which is one of the target pickups in the Tonedexter design. So I thought...’why not?’ When I was assured it would work well and bought the ES2 version. And I making sound images in TD was probably the 3rd thing I did after buying the guitar!

So I have 2 sound images I use - one made with my Neumann KM184 and another with my old Shure SM57. Very, very pleased. I just add a few percent to the mix....terrific.

BluesKing777.
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  #41  
Old 07-14-2019, 04:28 AM
bluetweed bluetweed is offline
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Both great recordings, thanks for you time guys!
Gary, what looper are you using ?
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  #42  
Old 07-14-2019, 04:43 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercoffee1 View Post
I know the banjo sound she's referring to, and I hear it on v-braced Taylors (not so much from the playing position, but from an audience perspective). On your video, at the 1:03 mark and 1:13 mark, that characteristic banjo sound.
It is a midrangy character on the B and E strings.
It's particularly noticeable on other Youtube videos when they compare the same model V bracing vs X bracing. Not trying to start a war, but that adjective totally jumps out for me as well.
If you notice, at those two points on the recording, he is strumming right near the bridge. Just sayin'.
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  #43  
Old 07-14-2019, 04:51 AM
Shades of Blue Shades of Blue is offline
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Totally get you on the ES2. I don’t like it either, and I don’t like having permanent electronics in any guitar.

My question is the satin finish. Did the finish make noise when playing through the ES2?
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  #44  
Old 07-14-2019, 09:35 AM
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Good morning my friends,

Yes, I was playing closer to the bridge at the point a few have mentioned. That does change the tonality. I use strumming hand placement as a way to change the sound and see what the guitar offers. So that point was well taken.

BluesTweed, I use an ElectroHarmonix Stereo 720 Looper. Works great. Especially easy for live use.

BluesKing777, I LOVE your playing. Your recordings show how various players with different skills, touch and attack can achieve all kinds of different results. The take away for me is the Taylor Grand Pacific is a very solid, musical guitar. For me, one of Taylors most musically complete guitars to date.

I played the 717 for at least an entire set before switching back and forth to the D-18 Cutaway, and then I finished the last set on the D-18. The comparison during a couple songs solidified conclusions for 'me'. I completely and totally prefer the D-18. I could have made the GP717 work the whole night but for solo'ing over loops, I was getting rather hollow results where my solo lines lacked weight no matter how I eq'd the ES2 on the guitar and no matter how I changed the EQ on my Baggs Align EQ pedal. *(Which is studio clean and very versatile) I could not get what I wanted from the Taylor with ES2. and the picking hand noise is quite profound.

To the point about the Santa Cruz strings making a huge difference, a good friend who listened before and after (great ears, great player and owns a 2018 D-41, ..said the Cruz strings made a HUGE difference) I do like them better than Elixir nano web that came on the guitar.

Shades: the satin finish may let the guitar breathe a little more acoustically? But I am just guessing and I would say the results are visual and tactile, but not sonic. Who knows. But I don't think I could ever attribute any degree of certainty one way or the other.
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  #45  
Old 07-14-2019, 10:19 AM
Shades of Blue Shades of Blue is offline
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Originally Posted by Groberts View Post
Good morning my friends,

Yes, I was playing closer to the bridge at the point a few have mentioned. That does change the tonality. I use strumming hand placement as a way to change the sound and see what the guitar offers. So that point was well taken.

BluesTweed, I use an ElectroHarmonix Stereo 720 Looper. Works great. Especially easy for live use.

BluesKing777, I LOVE your playing. Your recordings show how various players with different skills, touch and attack can achieve all kinds of different results. The take away for me is the Taylor Grand Pacific is a very solid, musical guitar. For me, one of Taylors most musically complete guitars to date.

I played the 717 for at least an entire set before switching back and forth to the D-18 Cutaway, and then I finished the last set on the D-18. The comparison during a couple songs solidified conclusions for 'me'. I completely and totally prefer the D-18. I could have made the GP717 work the whole night but for solo'ing over loops, I was getting rather hollow results where my solo lines lacked weight no matter how I eq'd the ES2 on the guitar and no matter how I changed the EQ on my Baggs Align EQ pedal. *(Which is studio clean and very versatile) I could not get what I wanted from the Taylor with ES2. and the picking hand noise is quite profound.

To the point about the Santa Cruz strings making a huge difference, a good friend who listened before and after (great ears, great player and owns a 2018 D-41, ..said the Cruz strings made a HUGE difference) I do like them better than Elixir nano web that came on the guitar.

Shades: the satin finish may let the guitar breathe a little more acoustically? But I am just guessing and I would say the results are visual and tactile, but not sonic. Who knows. But I don't think I could ever attribute any degree of certainty one way or the other.


What I meant about the finish was whether or not it made noise when moving your arm across the guitar that translated through the ES2.

My only real dislike about the guitar is the noise my flesh makes against the guitar, and I didn’t know if maybe it translates through the pickup system. It’s not a silent finish for me.
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