Pickup advice needed

[Andy Howell]

Try the Fishman Rarr Earth Blend

[reflected]

Originally Posted by Andy Howell

Try the Fishman Rarr Earth Blend

I've checked tons of videos of it and I didn't like the sound at all. Sounds too thin to my liking.

[63telemaster]

Originally Posted by reflected

Thanks for the info! I checked and the Fishman Aura preamp + a Fishman Matrix costs an arm and a leg, and it involves having an UST instaled. No go. Not going back that way.

So I'm left with either tweaking my M1a or going for the M80. (Still not sure if the difference is worth the money).

So how do I adjust it?

What are the consequences of moving the pickup backwards and forward?
What are the consequences of turning it so that it's not perpendicular to the strings?
What are the consequences of moving the poles up/ down?

Since you already have the M1a it makes sense to experiment with setup to get the best out of it.

Consequences of moving the pickup backwards and forward: There is a harmonic towards the front of the soundhole. Positioning the pickup directly above the harmonic will result in it sounding different to positioning it slightly away from it.

Consequences of turning it so that it's not perpendicular to the strings: Never tried this but the above applies.

Consequences of moving the poles up/ down: This determines the output balance between magnetic sensing (higher polepieces) and body movement sensing (lower polepieces) and for me is the most important adjustment. Unfortunately I found that the body sensing feature in the M1a adds an annoying nasal quality. Raising the polpieces has the effect of increasing the magnetic output in relation to the "body" output therefore minimising the nasal sound. Using pads between the clamps of the pickup and guitar top effectively isolates the pickup which further reduces the nasal quality.

Just make sure you don't have the polepieces too close to the strings as that creates other problems. You'll also find that the top E and B strings need to be much lower than the wound strings. Experimentation is the key.

After lots of tweaking, I was happy with the sound of the M1a. I bought the M80 primarily for the battery check light and the option of using passive/active. However, when setting up I found that the M80 does not have the same nasal quality as the M1a so I was able to use some of that body sensing in the mix. To my ears the M80 sounds better for it.

For my gig, the M80 is perfect as it gives a natural acoustic sound through a big system at large theatre venues and rarely has problems with feedback.

[reflected]

Thanks 63telemaster, that was very helpful! I thought I needed to lower the polepieces to get rid of the nasal tone, but it's just the opposite! I will experiment with these settings and if worse comes worst I might invest into an M80. On the videos I've seen though it sound very "nylon"-ish :/ Unfortunately most videos are fingerpicking, not heavy strumming (what I would use it for mostly).

[63telemaster]

Originally Posted by reflected

Thanks 63telemaster, that was very helpful! I thought I needed to lower the polepieces to get rid of the nasal tone, but it's just the opposite! I will experiment with these settings and if worse comes worst I might invest into an M80. On the videos I've seen though it sound very "nylon"-ish :/ Unfortunately most videos are fingerpicking, not heavy strumming (what I would use it for mostly).

No problem. I wouldn't describe the M80 as being nylon-ish sounding....it needs some EQ to get the best out of it but nothing too drastic.

My current gig is rhythm acoustic guitar so lots of strummage but lots of dynamic range needed. The M80 does the job very well in that I still feel like I'm playing my guitar and not just the pickup.

[reflected]

A little update:

I watched all the videos on Youtube about different pickups, but couldn't find one I liked.

So I started fiddling with the pole piece height. I always hated how loud the B and E strings were compared to the others, so I started raising the poles under the wound strings. I achieved a balance of volume, but it sounded terribly snappy and electric.

Then I said what the heck, and removed the pole pieces from under the E and B strings. I lowered the rest to achieve a balance of volume and BAMM, my guitar never sounded better amplified! :O

Sometimes the solution is closer than we think, and it's not always a question of money and buying new stuff

[chris6120]

Hey reflected,
I'm really glad you posted this, because I have been having the EXACT same problem you've been having with your Baggs M-1... only I'm having it with a Baggs M80 I just installed about 2 weeks ago.

The M80 replaced a Fishman presys+ piezo that came installed in my dreadnaught. As far as features, design, and ease of install, I really like everything about the M80...BUT... it sounds very hollow and nasally...so much that its distracting and a real bummer.

I guess this is just the result of the design and the way it picks up a lot of body response. I spent $220 on the Baggs M80 and feel like I've basically just traded one problem (the artificial piezo quack of my old pickup) for another (the distracting nasal sound of the M80).

I called Baggs today to get some guidance. They were very nice, but didn't offer any real useful or actionable input. Not trying to diss Baggs. I like their company and their products, and they did try to offer advice.

The guy I spoke with actually recommended against adjusting the pole pieces OR adjusting the position of the pickup in the soundhole, saying it would likely not make a big difference and might actually make the hollow midrange I'm hearing worse. He also said the fact that I'm using coated strings (elixirs) doesn't matter and its somewhat of a myth that they don't fair well with magnetic soundhole pickups. Almost all of his advice directly contradicts what I've read here on this forum. He actually recommended that I buy a different Baggs pickup. I am really frustrated...

Were you able to get rid of the nasal, hollow sounding midrange of your
M-1...or improve it?

PLEASE share again exactly what measures and adjustments you made to fix this... I would be extremely grateful... Thanks!

[Al Acuff]

Those adjustments will fine tune your sound but if you're not happy with the way your sound hole pickup sounds then you probably won't like the other sound hole pickups either.

The LR Baggs Lyric is reasonably priced and it's the only internal microphone I've tried that doesn't feedback. I'm using it in an Anthem SL system but that includes an undersaddle pickup so you should check out the Lyric system. The Lyric uses just an internal microphone. You might find the Lyric gives you the sound of your instrument without a second source needed.

I hear good reports about K&K pickups as well but haven't tried them. Folks tell me that you'd probably need to use a feedback buster in your sound hole to play loud without feedback.

Gotta go with experience here. I have an M80 in my HD-35 because I play in noisy venues and need that kind of pick up for several reasons. I formerly used a K&K pure mini which didn't cut it for my purposes but sounded way better than the Baggs.

[chris6120]

Thanks guys. I fear i may have unintentionally hijacked the OP's thread here. I apologize, as that was not my intent.

I wonder if using the existing fishman piezo presys+ that came in the guitar along with the soundhole M80 might be a workable solution?
They are both active with their own volume controls. Not sure if there might be an impedance mismatch though... or even if that would work.
My thought would be blending enough of the piezos snap into the m80s body resonance would tame the hollow mids im getting from the m80 alone. Putting the piezo back in would be a snap if that was an option.

I dont really fully understand blending options or what would be the best (and hopefully cheapest) way to blend them if it would work.

Any thoughts? Thanks

[j3ffr0]

I've never been happy with any pickups either. Bottom line is all fall short of a mic. I also suggest dual source. Augment whatever you have with a clip mic. Some use DPA. I use ATM350. Shure makes one as well that might be suitable. Make use of that second amp channel and blend it there.

[Charmed Life Picks]

I'm extremely picky about acoustic sound, and in fact I STILL hate every pickup I've ever met. But they are a necessary evil in many playing situations.

In a professional concert, the best tone I've ever heard is from Jackson Browne, and he is standardized on the Trance Amulet rig. It's good, but not perfect. If it were, he wouldn't throw an expensive Neumann mic in front of it as well when playing solo.

But it's pretty good. I also have an outboard Fishman Aura unit, which I use with the Baggs Anthem in my HD-28. Pretty slick stuff.

scott memmer

[reflected]

Chris, I just sent you a PM. FWIW I also use Elixirs. Adjusting the pole piece height makes a massive difference to my ears. The higher I got the quackier, more snappy, metallic and electric the sound got. The lower I got the more "covered" the sound was.

I also use a Para DI that helps a lot in shaping the sound. All in all I'm very happy with the result.

[chris6120]

Thanks again for your input gentlemen...
and thanks for the PM, reflected. Sorry if I hijacked your thread

Just an update:
After much experimentation and adjustment of the pole pieces...combined with running my signal through a TC Helicon play acoustic i picked up used for cheap... I have dialed out the nasal mid curve I was experiencing.

To my surprise, I am really happy with the Baggs M80 now. I think I just wasn't used to a sound hole pickup that picks up so much of the body resonance of the guitar, and therefore didn't have a good frame of reference for it. I was wrongly expecting it would be an immediate improvement to my sound with little to no learning curve or adjustment needed... I was wrong, it just required some patience and a good bit of experimentation to get it sounding quite good. Happy camper now and glad I didn't give up on it...

[reflected]

Chris,

Glad you got it sorted out. I was also surprised that it can be adjusted across such a wide spectrum.

Out of curiosity, how did you adjust your pole pieces? Higher/ lower?