K&K Mini with ToneDexter?

[mellowman]

I'm thinking about using a K&K mini in a Froggy Bottom H-12 Adi/EIR and pairing it with a ToneDexter. Anyone here have experience pairing a K&K mini with a ToneDexter?

[buzzardwhiskey]

Yes. I have a K&K in my Martin CEO7 and use a Tonedexter.

[gfirob]

I have K&K's on all my guitars (including a National Style O) and a Tonedexter with different wavemaps for each guitar. It is a great system.

[phcorrigan]

I have a K&K in my HD-28V and a JJB in my Martin Shenandoah D-2832. They both sound great through the ToneDexter. The K&K is somewhat "hotter" (louder) than the JJB.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by mellowman

I'm thinking about using a K&K mini in a Froggy Bottom H-12 Adi/EIR and pairing it with a ToneDexter. Anyone here have experience pairing a K&K mini with a ToneDexter?

Hi mellowman
Yes, and it's an awesome pairing!

I have K&K Pure Mini pickups in all my main guitars, and have pulled waveforms from each using studio condensers. I'm using them with my Olson, Bashkin & Kronbauer (Dread, OM, Mini-jumbo)

Best live sound I've produced after over 20 years of using dual source rigs. Much simpler, and easy to setup and use.

[SGFletch]

What are the downsides of the Tonedexter? I've heard demos that sound very very good. Is there any artificiality of feeling playing through it? Is it basically an IR?

[guitarman68]

I can experience no artificiality playing a K&K equipped guitar through a ToneDexter. It simply just sounds better with the TD.
Personally I still prefer a true mic paired with a pickup. And personally I think that Dazzo or UltraTonic are superior to a K&K. But this is only my humble opinion, nothing more.
K&K + TD is a great sounding combo, no doubt.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by SGFletch

What are the downsides of the Tonedexter?

1. It sometimes takes time and experimentation to get a good wavemap.

2. You can go down the rabbit hole of continually trying to make the "perfect" wavemap.

Those are the only downsides I know of, other than having to plunk down $400!

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SGFletch

What are the downsides of the Tonedexter? I've heard demos that sound very very good. Is there any artificiality of feeling playing through it? Is it basically an IR?

I would say there are two downsides. One, it can take time to get a good wavemap. I used to record quite a bit and feel I have a good feel for mic placement but I still get crappy wavemaps from time to time. Two, wavemaps that sound good at home don't always sound good live. I think the second is my biggest issue. I love the idea of IRs but struggle a bit in a live setting.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

1. It sometimes takes time and experimentation to get a good wavemap.

2. You can go down the rabbit hole of continually trying to make the "perfect" wavemap.

Those are the only downsides I know of, other than having to plunk down $400!

Pretty much.

It's worth persevering because when you find the sweet spot it's a lovely feeling to plug in and know the majority of the work is done.

(If I remember correctly )

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by mellowman

I'm thinking about using a K&K mini in a Froggy Bottom H-12 Adi/EIR and pairing it with a ToneDexter. Anyone here have experience pairing a K&K mini with a ToneDexter?

Hi again Steve…

I some really good large diaphragm mics (25mm capsule), and some above average medium diaphragm mics (20mm capsule), and some small diaphragm mics.

In the space I record in there is not a lot of room reflection, and I choose the cardioid pattern (when selectable). My best wave forms are coming from about 12" straight out from the neck-body joint with my Shure KSM-44 or the AKG 414.

On my friend's Classical guitar the best wave-form came from about 12" away and aimed between the bridge and tail with my Peluso CEMC6. His Taylor 714ce (Cedar top) we ended up at an angle from about 10" out from the 5th fret aimed back just to the neck side of the soundhole a couple inches.

We learned pretty quickly you cannot tell how the waveforms will perform till you put them through an amp or speaker system. Headphones don't give the same results.

[mellowman]

Thanks everyone, This is super helpful! I think I’m sold on the k&k+Tonedexter option. I’ll probably start trying a wave map with my beyerdynamic 930 sdc, although I saw a couple of videos where Molly Tuttle gets a great live sound with an sm57 wavemap, which surprised me. I might try that too.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by mellowman

Thanks everyone, This is super helpful! I think I’m sold on the k&k+Tonedexter option. I’ll probably start trying a wave map with my beyerdynamic 930 sdc, although I saw a couple of videos where Molly Tuttle gets a great live sound with an sm57 wavemap, which surprised me. I might try that too.

Hi m-man
Molly Tuttle cut her teeth in bluegrass circles playing through an SM-57, so she loves that 'sound', and the ToneDexter gives her that sound/feel without worrying about feedback when she plays live.

It's fun to experiment with different mics and positions, and the character knob really does provide on-the-fly adjustments for me for live play. I have my gigging partner (or someone I trust) listen out in the room to get the best sound.

[shufflebeat]

I have '57 maps for everything I have and some of them are the best option for that instrument.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by SGFletch

What are the downsides of the Tonedexter? I've heard demos that sound very very good. Is there any artificiality of feeling playing through it? Is it basically an IR?

One thing to be aware of is that the Tonedexter will bring out a realism and clarity in the treble that you'd never get from the pickup alone. And while it'll sound great in your home studio, it may not be as great through a venue's PA speakers, whose tweeters are probably designed to favor survival over accuracy. So the house sound person may roll back the treble to deal with that, and also to keep you away from feedback territory. I'm an FOH mixer and that's what I do.

One other thing that's been noted by a few people here (and experienced by me several times) is that a Tonedextered guitar onstage with an otherwise electric band can be an odd fit. Not sure how else to put it. Maybe we're just not accustomed to it yet.