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  #16  
Old 10-05-2017, 12:25 PM
topographic topographic is offline
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What's the difference between "charge" and "up-charge"?
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  #17  
Old 10-05-2017, 12:35 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthemiller View Post
...My question is, why is this all American wood dread more costly than the imported wood version (D-18) when Gibson can do a similar thing with the J-15 (all American wood) and make it far cheaper than the J-45.
Hmmm...

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Originally Posted by OneMansGuitar View Post
...A business has to be profitable to remain in business.
Hmmm...
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  #18  
Old 10-05-2017, 12:41 PM
dmckean44 dmckean44 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Fingers View Post
Why on earth does it cost more than a D18?
Adirondack, but also remember that domestic tonewood isn't any cheaper than mahogany. The main reason mahogany was used historically because it was so cheap and we were basically stealing it.
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  #19  
Old 10-05-2017, 02:30 PM
Jambi Jambi is offline
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I found this super interesting and really dig the sound.

Why isn't Sycamore used more often? I believe this is the first time I've seen it referenced for B&S...
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  #20  
Old 10-05-2017, 02:47 PM
Kip Carter Kip Carter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jambi View Post
I found this super interesting and really dig the sound.



Why isn't Sycamore used more often? I believe this is the first time I've seen it referenced for B&S...


I have seen several custom builders using Sycamore.
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  #21  
Old 10-05-2017, 04:18 PM
OneMansGuitar OneMansGuitar is offline
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Making an all-domestic guitar cheaper?

The whole point to this guitar is they are not making it cheaper. They are making with the same construction of a D-45.

And to me, that is exactly why it sounds MUCH better than anything in the 17 Series or 15 Series or Road Series, or the 16 Series, which features domestic woods for a lot less money than the Model America 1.

And yes, they have to make a profit on everything they sell.

If Martin or Gibson or Taylor ever tried to follow the business model of Asian TV makers, where everything gets cheaper as the years go by, but still live up to he expectation of providing American workers good wages and benefits, then American made guitars would all end up crap, like all those import guitars flooding the under $1K market, if there were any manufactured guitars from America at all.

But I do expect Martin and other brands to offer less expensive American wood guitars eventually. BUT it is hard sell. Martin has always had a hard time selling maple Martins.

People expect Martins to be made out of mahogany, rosewood, and koa. And it has taken a long time to get people to accept anything else.
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  #22  
Old 10-05-2017, 08:03 PM
Guest 1928
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Should I ask Howard Klepper for a partial refund due to the use of walnut for the back and sides on my SSD? I reckon not.

Perhaps it's the cost of the wood, setting up for a new guitar, or just what Martin thinks the market will bear, but I hope guitars like this do advance acceptance of nontraditional and/or domestic woods for guitar building.
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  #23  
Old 10-05-2017, 09:24 PM
ohYew812 ohYew812 is offline
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Other than appointments, the comparison to a D-18 is silly. The price is what it be. Buy it or don't buy it.

I love it! I'd really like to try one.

Digging the idea of alternate/different tonewoods.
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  #24  
Old 10-05-2017, 09:52 PM
George Henry George Henry is offline
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I would think that if Martin wants to actually sell alternative woods, they would offer a price advantage. Offering a less desirable wood at a higher price makes no sense.

Manufacturers do not always expect to make a profit on every product. Ford never made a profit on their Escort. They simply needed a small car to fill that size and price segment, and they were willing to take a loss which they made up for in the sales of larger vehicles. They eventually introduced the Focus, which made a profit.

Why should a buyer pay more for a guitar with less desirable woods? I want more of an advantage to take the risk on sycamore. I would expect to pay less than a new D-18, even with the Adirondack.
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  #25  
Old 10-05-2017, 10:08 PM
Guest 1928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Henry View Post
I would think that if Martin wants to actually sell alternative woods, they would offer a price advantage. Offering a less desirable wood at a higher price makes no sense.
I think that's exactly the notion they'd like to dispel. I've played several of they're sycamore guitars (other than this model) and they've been very appealing tonally and visually. It's only less desirable if most people think it is. Tonally, it is not inferior.

Going back to my Klepper again, I paid more for the walnut than it would have cost with several different tropical wood choices. The market is what it is of course, but I think it may be changing.
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  #26  
Old 10-05-2017, 10:17 PM
zmf zmf is offline
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Thanks. Interesting review. But I can't separate your playing from the sycamore. Sounds different, but I can't tell what makes the difference. There's a depth of bass that doesn't sound mahogany or walnut.

Very nice playing to bring out the guitar.
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  #27  
Old 10-05-2017, 10:34 PM
dmckean44 dmckean44 is offline
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Judging by comments here, baby boomers are going to hurry up and die before anything but mahohany and rosewood gets any consideration.
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  #28  
Old 10-05-2017, 10:55 PM
edwardmatt83 edwardmatt83 is offline
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I love the sound of this guitar. My only concern is if I ever wanted to sell it. Do you think I would have a harder time selling it compared to a D18?
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  #29  
Old 10-05-2017, 10:57 PM
email4eric email4eric is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmckean44 View Post
Judging by comments here, baby boomers are going to hurry up and die before anything but mahohany and rosewood gets any consideration.
Naw...This boomer absolutely loves the exploration into different woods and the domesticity of these woods is endearing. I'd buy this guitar based on that and the wonderful separation I heard in the sound clip. It's a unique guitar.

Would like to play that neck first though...

What an interesting guitar! Thanks, OneMans....
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  #30  
Old 10-06-2017, 06:40 AM
rwmct rwmct is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmckean44 View Post
Judging by comments here, baby boomers are going to hurry up and die before anything but mahohany and rosewood gets any consideration.
Why??? If, in fact, this guitar appeals more to younger people, why can't they buy it? If we all dropped dead tomorrow, how would this help the younger folks afford this? Inheritances?

If these new tonewoods won't be a success unless baby boomers buy them in large numbers, and baby boomers don't want to buy them in large numbers, then too bad. We are under no obligation to buy guitars we don't want.

I am not knocking sycamore. And I like the walnut J-15. I am happy they are coming out with new models. But a new model cannot instantly supplant iconic guitars like the D-18 or D-28. If I go Martin for my next guitar, it is likely be one of those. I have viewed D-18s and D-28s as "the Martins" for about forty years.

I have seen plenty of companies that used to market to me start to change their focus to younger generations, in terms of what they sell and how they market it. That is fine, it has always been this way. But they can't change their focus to stuff that does not appeal to me as much, and expect me to buy it anyway.
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adirondack, martin, model america 1, sycamore

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