#16
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Bourgeois Custom OM SS all mahogany (current favorite ) Collings CJ35 (German spruce top) Collings 01SB Martin OMJM Martin Jeff Daniels custom OM #33 Martin Eric Clapton Custom Signature Martin CEO-7 Martin 0-18 Guild F65ce Waterloo WL12 MH Fender Stratocaster 1980 (American My biggest fear is when i die my wife will sell my guitars for what I told her they cost |
#17
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You can’t go wrong with either one
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Bourgeois Custom OM SS all mahogany (current favorite ) Collings CJ35 (German spruce top) Collings 01SB Martin OMJM Martin Jeff Daniels custom OM #33 Martin Eric Clapton Custom Signature Martin CEO-7 Martin 0-18 Guild F65ce Waterloo WL12 MH Fender Stratocaster 1980 (American My biggest fear is when i die my wife will sell my guitars for what I told her they cost |
#18
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Not everyone likes the Collings tone profile. Fair enough. I don’t like every Collings guitar I have auditioned, and I am not a fan of the D’Addario strings that are on Collings guitars when they are shipped from Texas. I have found that the Collings with German tops sound really good to me, and that they sound Better when I get my preferred strings on them, and they sound really great after a couple of years of being played in. |
#19
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Is that Bourgeois an all mahogany OM? Of all the Bourgeois I have played, the OM’s are my favorite, and there is one that I played about 8 years ago that I still wish I had bought....
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#20
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Matter fact it is it is my favorite
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Bourgeois Custom OM SS all mahogany (current favorite ) Collings CJ35 (German spruce top) Collings 01SB Martin OMJM Martin Jeff Daniels custom OM #33 Martin Eric Clapton Custom Signature Martin CEO-7 Martin 0-18 Guild F65ce Waterloo WL12 MH Fender Stratocaster 1980 (American My biggest fear is when i die my wife will sell my guitars for what I told her they cost |
#21
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I've liked pretty much all the Collings and Bourgeois I've played so far and I'd love to own a Vintage Heirloom OM or a Traditional OM. Even though they're different of course, I'd say they're both on an equally high level sound and quality wise. But Bourgeois attracts me more because of the fact that they're a really a small shop, and Dana Bourgeois himself chooses and voices every top and back for every guitar. And there's also the price. For example, you get a Vintage Heirloom, with beautiful appointments, Animal Protein glue, an Adi top, for about 5 k, whereas a comparable Collings costs more than 6...
This is a very recent video of the Bourgeois shop: https://youtu.be/UYYGS5ouy84 Last edited by Ernesto; 10-26-2020 at 07:45 PM. |
#22
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If so, I've got to seek one out to try. I've always gravitated towards the Bourgeois tone. Maybe time to re-evaluate. |
#23
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Hey, ZMF--About the Collings Traditional Series. I bought a D1 Sunburst Traditional last April from The Music Emporium. Just my opinion of course, but I think it's an amazing guitar. Collings seems to aiming for recreating an old time vibe with these guitars, the way they look and feel and sound. It's hard to describe these things of course, but there seems to be certain kind of smooth, underlying, remorseless depth to my D1, a certain quality to the sound that almost takes me back in time. The guitar has all the wonderful attributes of a Collings--flawless design and construction, lots of clarity and precision to the sound--but also that depth that I alluded to earlier. I think Collings has really hit on something with the Traditional Series. The guitars are expensive, no doubt, but one usually has to pay for quality.
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#24
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Love this.
Thanks for the critique. Gotta check one out. |
#25
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#26
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We love this conversation! Of course, we'll probably also end up at "equally great" but here's our well-travelled perspective on both brands:
First, the OP asked to compare sound and playability, and this thread went very much toward sound. Let's talk about playability first. Our normal line is "nothing dials in like a Collings." Their necks are reinforced with spring steel, and vs other brands, we find that the truss rods on Collings are more of a game of absolute micro-adjustments. They're just incredibly stable. We've set up Collings for folks (at their request) with dead-straight, no-relief necks, at 3/32" action on the bass and 3/64" on the treble... and they've said "PERFECT!" ...only with a Collings is this possible. But the trade-off of that Collings stability is a slightly more robust build. There's no going around it, Collings are a little tighter when they're new. And it is kind of a sore spot for us, because so many people buy new Collings guitars and trade in and out of them before they are even close to broken in! Torrefied tops help a little bit, and the Traditional tone profile is unquestionably warmer out of the box... but there is nothing as tonally sure of itself as a well played-in Collings. We have (and will probably always have) Steve's #326 D2H (as they near #35000) and it stands as an impeccable example. Sitka, Indian rosewood, it pretty much intoxicates everyone who plays it. The "NOT FOR SALE" tag that hangs from the endpin makes us feel bad, but kinda good, too! What we are always reminding our customers is that while the bass response is a thing that flowers and develops over time, treble response does not, in most cases. Typically, you will hear more warmth and depth developing in the bass of a guitar as you continue to play it, but the trebles never really "ascend" from where they are in the beginning. That's why it is important to have high end clarity early in the life of a guitar. It makes sense, right? As the thing settles in, as it loosens, the bass becomes more comfortable with itself, warms up, the trebles mellow a little bit and the whole thing comes into focus. Bill Collings understood this all too well, and that's why he built his guitars just a little bit more robust, with a high end that would mellow over time, but never fail the player. It was and is kind of a "long view" perspective of building a dependable, balanced guitar. Back to playability, for the sake of the segway: we almost never have to do tweaks to the Collings factory setup to make a customer happy. The very rare occasion to shave the saddle for the most delicate fingerstyle pickers, but again, almost never. So on to Bourgeois: though it has gotten a little better over the last 5-7 years, Bourgeois guitars generally ship from the factory with a lot of relief. The truss rod is usually engaged well into the "up bow" area, and that reflects in the action, especially if the thing is running medium strings. Not to worry, though! Bourgeois guitars ship with nice tall saddles, and between those and the relief, the adjustability is there to obtain any kind of desirable setup. BUT I will say (again, to acknowledge the OP) that it would be a very good idea to have some numbers in mind when buying a new Bourgeois, if you have an ideal setup... especially if that setup skews low. As policy, we will do any kind of relief adjustment that a buyer wants, for their particular string gauge, but we won't shave the saddle on a brand new guitar and still allow a return window... just because that saddle material can't be put back. We usually advise folks to evaluate the tone as carefully as they can, and know that down the road they will have any and every opportunity to bring down the saddle if they choose to, or ideally, bring it to their favorite tech for a perfect-for-them setup. All of this is to say that on the sales floor, a brand new Bourgeois may be harder to play than a brand new Collings, even though the neck runs shallower on the Bourgeois and the satin finish might make it feel "faster". I usually do a little truss rod move on a Bourgeois before I hand it over, just because I know that the average player is probably after.... but easy enough to tweak back. Bourgeois has some pretty legendary tech going on in their necks. Again, anything is possible. But that Bourgeois tone, as has been said, tends to be on the more balanced side of the Martin/traditional spectrum, with more clarity in the mids and less of a bass bias. For OMs and OM family instruments (we're bonkers about the JOM-T, obvious from our website) there might be none finer, and we will always thank Dana for his work bringing the Orchestra Model back from the brink.
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________________________ Acoustic Music Works Guitars, Banjos, Mandolins & Good Company A top dealer for Collings, Huss & Dalton, Kevin Kopp, Baleno Instruments, Eastman, Pisgah Banjos, OME and ODE Banjos, Northfield Mandolins, and more! (412) 422-0710 www.acousticmusicworks.com Friend us on Facebook! Follow us on Twitter! Check out our YouTube channel! |
#27
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Watching the video tour of Dana's shop, I got the impression they CNC their own necks. I thought I heard some time ago that they outsourced that to someone off site...just curious.
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Dread = Not what I play...the reaction I get... |
#28
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I don't have much to add to the conversation, other than to say both brands are as top notch as they come, with wonderful builds, attention to detail and craftsmanship. Variances in tone exist guitar to guitar and model to model.
The reason I'm posting is to share my appreciation for the post from Acoustic Music Works (AMW) above. Super educational, a joy to read, and very appreciated by this reader. Thanks! |
#29
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There have been a lot of good posts here, thanks all. I especially appreciate the extensive one by AMW! Excellent post, thanks, there’s a lot of real information and experience there. “Should be a sticky” for the endless rounds of Collings/Martin/SCGC/Bourgeois/etc compare/contrast/which is better for whatever discussions.
Interestingly, I, like several here, have found that the Bourgeois build I’d like to have most is the OM. I’ve consistently liked theirs no matter what the woods, and have often preferred them to Collings OMs, while I’ve usually preferred Collings for D’s. However, I have not really been an “OM Guy” except for Borges, Circa and now the OM1AJL Collings. I would really like to try a few Franklin OM’s as well. As for Collings “not holding tune”.....well.....maybe that poster actually got’ a’ holt of one of them “Collins” guitars mentioned on this forum now and again. As for me, the only guitars with anything near the tuning stability of Collings acoustics I’ve encountered are Collings electrics and CF guitars by Rainsong, Emerald and CA. Of course, some of the higher end solo builds are extremely stable as well, but certainly not all. And I’ll tell you, most Collings that I’ve had give those CF builds a real run for the money. Kind of one of many points of pride at the Collings Fabrik, neck construction and stability. They’re not dovetail, by intent and design. Last edited by Mark L; 10-26-2020 at 07:43 PM. |
#30
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In my own experience, I've had no trouble playing new Bourgeois -- maybe they were set up at the shop? The tone has always been good-to-go. You mention that the Collings tone benefits from use -- perhaps that's why I prefer Bourgeois. If I might impose on you further for your opinion, do you think the Collings Traditional models allow their guitars to require less break-in? Perhaps reduce what I hear as a brash, in-your-face brightness? |