And then there were none!

[gmr]

I too love the acoustic archtop. I was hopeful that the Epiphone mastebilt archtop from a few years ago would be successful. Personally, I think they were a pretty decent tribute to the student level archtop of the past. And, the electronics were not too bad either. I honestly wish I would have hung on to the one I purchased. It was the smallest version of the lot. That may have been the better of the three models. Doesn’t Loar still make a couple of acoustic archtop models? They would be beyond the student model price range though.

[fpuhan]

I know this isn't true to the main topic of this thread, but I found that if one looks, one can still find an acoustic archtop. This one isn't new, but it appears to be a decent offering {Reverb}

[Bluemonk]

Originally Posted by fpuhan

I suspect you're right, but I'd reply, "What's the point?" These days, even most "acoustic" guitars come equipped with onboard electronics. If you can play a guitar both ways, why build one that limits that possibility?

In my view, an "acoustic" archtop is one that is built/braced for acoustic response, regardless of whether or not it is equipped with a floating pickup. And Ibanez does not make one of those.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by fpuhan

I know this isn't true to the main topic of this thread, but I found that if one looks, one can still find an acoustic archtop. This one isn't new, but it appears to be a decent offering:{Reverb}

I own one of these, as does the OP...

If you're looking for a good-sounding/playing archtop that won't break the bank - or require a complete (and expensive) overhaul to get it into playable condition (as with most vintage Harmony/Kay instruments) - this is your only option, period...

If you think you won't find a use for it, think again - this little box will quickly find its way into your rotation regardless of your preferred style(s)...

Asking price is on the high side, even for a mint-condition example like this one - I'd offer $100 less and work from there - but they've (justifiably) become a cult favorite, and you'll have a heluva time finding another any time soon if at all...

Ball's in your court...

Originally Posted by Bluemonk

In my view, an "acoustic" archtop is one that is built/braced for acoustic response, regardless of whether or not it is equipped with a floating pickup. And Ibanez does not make one of those.

They did, back in the '70s - rather good ones in fact, that presently sell for $2500+ when/if they turn up. Frankly, there's no reason they couldn't again - a mildly-modified AF55 minus the pickups/controls, selling for the same $350 as the parent model, could easily be a worthy successor to the Godin 5th Avenue...

[gmr]

I kick myself every time I see pictures of those Godin 5th Avenue Acoustic models. Unfortunately, they seem to have stopped making them. They definitely proved that a modest price point, authentic sounding, lovely archtop can be mass produced. I kept thinking I would get round to buying one. Then they were gone.

[Robin, Wales]

5

Originally Posted by fpuhan

Yes, I have a Godin 5th Avenue acoustic archtop. I found one going cheaply second hand in the UK following a recommendation from Steve DeRosa to try one out. I have put 13 -56 pure nickel strings on it and a rosewood bridge.

I think that Godin would have done better with this model with slightly different marketing. It's a really pity they are not making it now. I use mine for basic roots/folk either flat picked or Travis picked with a thumb pick and metal fingerpicks.





I have a solo slot coming up at a concert this Wednesday. I'll Carter pick and sing Little Annie using the 5th Avenue. There will be an audience of 50 - 70 folks and I will be performing with the archtop (no p/a)

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

I’m very disappointed that the acoustic archtop has dropped off the radar of all of today’s mass produced budget guitar makers. I look through catalogues from the 30s to the 60s and it is archtops, archtops, archtops – all the way from pressed birch up to hand carved. Everyone was making them – in the US and Europe.

Then, nothing! OK, so Eastman make an (expensive) one now but the Loar and Godin seem to have stopped production of their purely acoustic models. Where’s the Epiphone, or Tanglewood, or Yamaha, or Blueridge, or Recording King etc etc.

It can’t be that difficult to bang out basic but well built archtops. You could CNC carve birch, or spruce or maple etc today by the 100s in no time at all. Laser cutting and heat pressing ply would be even easier. Add a bolt on neck and you are away. Even the neck angle on an archtop has a % of leeway greater than a flattop that would make them ideal for mass production. They are easy to set-up and adjust – and rock solid to take life’s knocks.

I think that I should contact Yamaha and see if they would churn out something around the FG800 Series price and level of build quality – all laminate with just a couple of tone bars (like the Godin 5th Avenue). I bet with two body sizes – a 16” and a 14” they would be a good global seller!

hi Robin, I share your interest and have done since 2006. but it is purely a matter of "fashion". Archtops in the '50s were all about big band style popular music, which for acoustic music was replaced in the UK by skiffle (our own folk scare) which re-acquianted us with flat tops.

I have three archtops, (not that I can justify them with my playing skills) my first was a Harmony, then an Eastman (floating p/u so I traded it) , then my 1934 Gibson L-4 (f-holes) then another Eastman AR805 (2007)
David Rawlings brought them back into favour for a while.

If I were you I'd keep an eye out for a good '60s Harmony. They do appear on Ebay from time to time.

Here's my stash :

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

....I think that Godin would have done better with this model with slightly different marketing. It's a real pity they are not making it now. I use mine for basic roots/folk either flatpicked or Travis-picked with a thumb pick and metal fingerpicks...

FWIW Godin seems to be thoroughly committed to archtops, with no fewer than ten models in their current 5th Avenue Series; while there are no purely acoustic models at present, I wonder how much persuasion it would take for them to offer the new 5th Avenue Jumbo in an all-acoustic version in the $800-900 range - the closest similar offering is the (all-carved) Eastman AR610 non-cutaway at more than twice the price, and if the original small-body is any indication they could have a real winner with a (very) reasonably-priced big-body acoustic archtop...

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

FWIW Godin seems to be thoroughly committed to archtops, with no fewer than ten models in their current 5th Avenue Series; while there are no purely acoustic models at present, I wonder how much persuasion it would take for them to offer the new 5th Avenue Jumbo in an all-acoustic version in the $800-900 range - the closest similar offering is the (all-carved) Eastman AR610 non-cutaway at more than twice the price, and if the original small-body is any indication they could have a real winner with a (very) reasonably-priced big-body acoustic archtop...

Wow! I have not noticed that deeper body version!

If I was still running Busker Guitars (and the UK was still in the EU!) I would be very tempted to ask them if I could buy a run of 25 to 30 purely acoustic versions of the 5th Avenue Jumbo for me to test the water in Europe.

Mmm...... I'd go for the dark "bourbon burst" finish for the body and neck they use in the Art & Lutherie range (that shouldn't be difficult for them), plain dot position markers, a rosewood bridge, and the D'Addario 13-56 pure nickel strings as standard (seeing how Godin strings are made by D'Addario that shouldn't be difficult either).

I'd get them to call the model the 5 Avenue "Roots". And I'd have a woman, like Brennen Leigh or Sierra Ferrell or Rhiannon Giddens singing something old time style but a new song with a 30s dungarees dirt farmer vibe in the Godin website video. I'd stay completely away from jazz for the marketing, and focus on acoustic alt roots music with a 50/50 split in gender representation in any media material Godin publish.

Edit: Thinking about it some more, I would actually put this new model in the Art & Lutherie stable rather than the Godin one. It would be more likely to reach the right audience.

[mrjop1975]

I thought that the game plan with Epiphone was originally after they quickly discontinued the Masterbilt archtop series after 3 years, that they were going to go back to the drawing board with, and come out with something else. That never did happen, which is a shame. I still have my Epiphone Olympic, mostly because the acoustical Loar archtop is out of stock on Sweetwater. If the Loar was to come back in stock, I would get it in a heartbeat, but not for jazz. My first picking style was the Carter scratch, and I think most archtops are probably marketed towards jazz, not old time music a la the Carters.

I do like Robin's idea of some kind of Godin or Art & Lutherie version of an acoustic archtop - anyone have any contacts there about seeing if they ever would consider bringing back a strictly acoustic archtop? Or at the least we all need to maybe contact Epiphone to see if they will ever bring back an acoustic (even acoustic/electric) archtop?

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

...Thinking about it some more, I would actually put this new model in the Art & Lutherie stable rather than the Godin one. It would be more likely to reach the right audience.

A couple thoughts of my own:

• I'd sooner see the original small-body 5th Avenue revived in the A&L lineup - plain and unadorned as it is, and at around $500-600 more in keeping with the Godin family hierarchy - and leave the Jumbo as-is in the parent Godin line, as an upscale option;
• The "Roots" appellation has already been claimed by Gretsch (who FWIW had similar name-claiming issues with Fender in the early-1950's - can you say "Broadcaster"...) for their acoustic folk instruments, which until recently included the 16" New Yorker archtop, so another name with appropriate prewar cachet would be in order: maybe "Barndance" for the A&L small-body, reminiscent of the mail-order instruments of the Depression, and "Juke" for the fancier Godin Jumbo, evoking images of gut-bucket blues and early jazz - sorry, but IMO you need at least a casual nod to the latter genre, and I'm thinking a Jumbo would be just the ticket for a group of this type (click on the YouTube link, music starts @ 1:10):

Originally Posted by mrjop1975

...I do like Robin's idea of some kind of Godin or Art & Lutherie version of an acoustic archtop - anyone have any contacts there about seeing if they ever would consider bringing back a strictly acoustic archtop? Or at the least we all need to maybe contact Epiphone to see if they will ever bring back an acoustic (even acoustic/electric) archtop?

In the former case, maybe enough publicly-expressed interest from their target audience (that's us, ladies and gents) could swing the pendulum. In the latter Epiphone has taken a different path, concentrating on their Kalamazoo-era models (not hard enough IMO) and their gee-I-wish-I-had-a-Gibson copies of parent-company favorites (LP, 335, SG, EB-0/EB-3, etc.), rather than the historic New York instruments: a questionable choice to many of us, but given Gretsch's supremacy in the "affordable vintage" market they've chosen to mount a frontal assault with the models that are more familiar to those outside the jazz world - Casino, Riviera, Olympic/Wilshire/Crestwood solids, Newport/Embassy basses, as well as the acoustic Texan/Frontier/Excellente - and while their former plans may well have been sidetracked by the lockdown, I can see a certain logic in their current direction...

[Robin, Wales]

Thanks Steve,

A lot of insight there. Loved the band!

What you say about the standard 5th Avenue acoustic appearing in the A&L line and the Jumbo acoustic with Godin makes sense.

It would be fun to drop a line to Godin and see what they say!

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

hi Robin, I share your interest and have done since 2006. but it is purely a matter of "fashion". Archtops in the '50s were all about big band style popular music, which for acoustic music was replaced in the UK by skiffle (our own folk scare) which re-acquianted us with flat tops.

I have three archtops, (not that I can justify them with my playing skills) my first was a Harmony, then an Eastman (floating p/u so I traded it) , then my 1934 Gibson L-4 (f-holes) then another Eastman AR805 (2007)
David Rawlings brought them back into favour for a while.

If I were you I'd keep an eye out for a good '60s Harmony. They do appear on Ebay from time to time.

Here's my stash :

Andy,

You have some wonderful archtops!

[rscott4079]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

I was thinking far, far simpler.... Most of those thousands of cheap archtops that were produced were just played as general acoustic guitars...period.

I think this illustrates part of the problem. Unlike vintage flattops, the vintage archtop has remained fairly low priced. It's difficult to make a saleable budget model, when you have eighty years of pretty darn nifty inexpensive vintage models to choose from at or near the same price point.

The good news of course is that we archtopians can still get great vintage guitars at great prices (Shhhh....don't tell anyone).

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by rscott4079

...It's difficult to make a saleable budget model, when you have eighty years of pretty darn nifty inexpensive vintage models to choose from at or near the same price point...

IME nearly all of the vintage Harmony/Kay student instruments that come up for sale are in need of major work - we're talking about a good few hundred dollars here, which can easily boost your total investment into the high-three-figure range (occasionally higher) - and while in the interest of full disclosure I have a '61 Kay Galaxie in just such condition, the fact that I only paid $20 for it at a church rummage sale makes it well worth my while, since I know I can recoup all monies laid out upon sale ...

These days a decent carved-top Gibson L-50 will set you back $2000-3000, an all-laminated L-48 about $300 less - about what you'd pay for a brand-new all-carved 600/800-Series Eastman - and a good 17" L-7 can put you within reach of a built-to-order instrument from Mark Campellone or Stephen Holst...

FYI New York-era Epiphones - considered by Gibson to be their only real competition in their Big Band heyday - have unfortunately been discovered, and while they don't command the elevated prices of their Gibson counterparts they're not the bargains they were in the last decades of the 20th century, when I picked up an excellent-condition '46 Blackstone for $300 w/OHSC (and sold for $850 in the early-2K's)...

While original D'Angelicos always brought top dollar here in the NYC area, I'm still kicking myself for passing up a 19" Stromberg Master 400 - considered by many archtop aficionados to be the loudest guitars in creation, and the ultimate Big Band comp box - for $900 at Eddie Bell in 1976 (current going price $35-50K depending on year/condition/appointments)...

Conversely, the Godin instruments would sell for well under $1K and since, with very few exceptions, they would be secondary instruments (the really serious archtop players already own first-tier stuff anyway), they'd be ideally suited for multi-style players (myself included - and I've already got my 5th Avenue) looking to see what the buzz is all about, or add another valuable tone color to their arsenal without breaking the bank...