Hide Glue vs normal Titebond

[cleveguitar]

I was curious how the two compare in terms of doing neck resets? I know that hide glue is the traditional glue but does the regular Titebond glue function the same way? Do you need more heat, less heat, about the same? Would you say one is any more difficult to get apart? I know that hide glue dries harder and has some benefit but the regular glue is easier to use. Thanks guys and gals

[mirwa]

My viewpoint.

Hide glue is great and extermely strong, but very short working time before it gels and cannot be used, under a minute if you are unfamiliar with the use of it your glued up joint can be worthless and have no strength at all.

Titebond original has a good working time easily 5 minutes before it really starts to grip, it allows you to align parts properly and clamp them.

Titebond glue has the ability to stretch under load and heat, its called glue creep, typically an instrument is not left in conditions where this situation starts to occur.

Hide glue does not creep, when it fails it cracks and lets go.

Hide glue you can purchase in granular form or make your own from animal skins, titebond is purchased as a liquid, avoid hide glue in the presold liquid form

Steve

[Bass.swimmer]

I'll throw my two bits in (but take other's advise before me). The benefit of hide glue is that glue joints can be easily separated, whereas Titebond takes some work to separate. Hide glue also bonds with itself, where old Titebond needs to be cleaned off for the glue to stick. Having said that, hide glue needs to be mixed well, and heated (also, the higher the gram strength of the hide glue, the shorter the working time you have). Hide glue also needs a very tight fitting joint, otherwise it looses strength. Titebond can gap fill a little more, and comes ready to use out of the bottle.

Both have their pros and cons. Each should work well. I like hide glue if I have a bottle warmed and ready to go. Otherwise, I just use Titebond.

Just my thoughts

[redir]

Hide glue is truly reversible while Titebond is not. It's also easier to remove a neck done with HHG using heat and steam then one done with Titebond. Having said that both imho are perfectly good choices for guitar construction.

[peter.coombe]

The most difficult joint I have ever had to separate was glued with hide glue, and the easiest joint to separate was glued with hide glue so you can't really generalize. Really old hide glue can go brittle so then is a piece of cake to separate. Titebond will separate with heat, but you need to clean up all the old glue before you re-glue. On the other hand hide glue can be re-activated with heat and water. Violin makers use diluted hide glue which is relatively easy to separate, but easy to separate also means it is more likely to fail. Nothing is perfect. All have strengths and weaknesses. Personally I mostly use LMI yellow luthiers glue. It is similar to Titebond but doesn't creep nearly as much, but I could do without the yellow colour and it doesn't do rub joints particularly well. All are suitable for making musical instruments.

We argue about glue far too much.

[Howard Klepper]

A tapered dovetail joint holds mechanically, so glue creep is irrelevant. Original Titebond is easy to separate with heat, and not hard to clean off for regluing.

[John Arnold]

Easy enough to separate Titebond dovetail neck joints. While the majority of my 1400+ resets have been on older guitars with hide glue, I have done a fair amount that were glued with modern white glue or yellow (Titebond Original type). Martin used a reasonably hard white glue from 1965 until the switch to yellow a couple of decades later. No trouble ungluing any of them with steam. To remove old glue from the opened joint, I often will heat it with a small heat gun, the type used on electrical heat shrink tubing.

[rkernell]

I am a rank beginner and ignorant about these processes, but trying to learn. One of the hinderances that I am trying to resolve is the variation of opinions about hide glue. I have bought a guitar kit and am researching the best processes to follow to assemble it. I had assumed that I would use Titebond, but then read articles stating the virtues of hide glue, and they indeed seem to be preferable to Titebond, reversibility, finishing forgiveness and others.

But I am confused at the extreme difference of opinion on this topic.

[JonWint]

What glue does the kit supplier recommend?

Martin kit instructions recommend Titebond Original for all wood-to-wood joining. Plastic binding/purfling requires different glue.

[redir]

I would suggest you use Titebond for a first project. Titebond has been used to build hundreds of thousands if not millions of guitars. It's perfectly suitable for the job and some of the best luthiers in the world use it exclusively.

Hide glue is great but it requires a learning curve and on your first guitar build you have many more learning curves to deal with.

[Victory Pete]

Good timing for this topic. I have never used Hide Glue but want to soon.

[Victory Pete]

I wonder what happens to Titebond that gets heated and damp but doesn't let go? I always wondered what state is the Titebond in that remains in the surrounding area after something has been heated and steamed. I just removed a neck with steam and the maple shims are still attached to the neck block

[Quickstep192]

LMI makes a glue that's similar to Titebond, but has some attributes similar to hide glue. Here's what they say about it and I've found it to be mostly accurate.

Excellent sanding properties. Will not gum up sanding belts like most glues (a problem with FG and others), and soundboards are spared messy sanding residue from the glue
Discreet florescent dye additive allows you to clearly see (in black light) “invisible” glue residue that can ruin a finish, saving untold hours spent repairing finishes
Easier than other glues to clean up
Dries harder than other commercial glues (some believe this makes it a better “tone transference medium”)
Excellent hold strength with a variety of exotic woods, including oily woods like Cocobolo (though common sense cleaning and surface preparation should be used on these woods)
Clamps can be removed in 30 minutes, even in warm temperatures (though it’s best to wait an hour or longer); you can begin machine sanding (which introduces heat) in as little as 90 minutes if you are in a pinch for time
Repairable; joints separate at around 190 degrees (about the same as FG) but more heat resistant at lower temperatures

[Frank Ford]

Originally Posted by peter.coombe

The most difficult joint I have ever had to separate was glued with hide glue, and the easiest joint to separate was glued with hide glue so you can't really generalize. Really old hide glue can go brittle so then is a piece of cake to separate. Titebond will separate with heat, but you need to clean up all the old glue before you re-glue. On the other hand hide glue can be re-activated with heat and water. Violin makers use diluted hide glue which is relatively easy to separate, but easy to separate also means it is more likely to fail. Nothing is perfect. All have strengths and weaknesses. Personally I mostly use LMI yellow luthiers glue. It is similar to Titebond but doesn't creep nearly as much, but I could do without the yellow colour and it doesn't do rub joints particularly well. All are suitable for making musical instruments.

We argue about glue far too much.

Well said, sir.

[Victory Pete]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

LMI makes a glue that's similar to Titebond, but has some attributes similar to hide glue. Here's what they say about it and I've found it to be mostly accurate.

Excellent sanding properties. Will not gum up sanding belts like most glues (a problem with FG and others), and soundboards are spared messy sanding residue from the glue
Discreet florescent dye additive allows you to clearly see (in black light) “invisible” glue residue that can ruin a finish, saving untold hours spent repairing finishes
Easier than other glues to clean up
Dries harder than other commercial glues (some believe this makes it a better “tone transference medium”)
Excellent hold strength with a variety of exotic woods, including oily woods like Cocobolo (though common sense cleaning and surface preparation should be used on these woods)
Clamps can be removed in 30 minutes, even in warm temperatures (though it’s best to wait an hour or longer); you can begin machine sanding (which introduces heat) in as little as 90 minutes if you are in a pinch for time
Repairable; joints separate at around 190 degrees (about the same as FG) but more heat resistant at lower temperatures

I still have some of LMIs white Luthier's glue, it seems there were some problems with it. I am curious about this new yellow stuff.