chord names or numbers more important?

[larryb]

When trying to develop skills on progressions chord substitutions, is it more important to know the chord names or chord numbers? For example, in developing facility at transposing a particular progression, should I focus on learning the actual chord names (for example, GM7, GM6......) for the progression and the substitutions or is it more important to focus on memorizing the numbers (IM7, IM6....)?

[JoeCharter]

For seasoned musicians, it shouldn't make a difference.

If you know what key you're in, knowing the "numbers" equates to knowing the actual chord names.

[jbhiller]

Hard for me to give you a hard and fast answer, but I can say the benefit of knowing the numbers to a progression is that it gives you something to relate it to.

For instance, for most of the world that doesn't have perfect pitch, it's probably much easier to hear a song and say, oh that's a I, vi, ii, V progression, as opposed to, oh, I hear F, Dm, Gm, C.

The number system is soooo helpful because it gives you a "constant" as opposed to variables. If you don't use the numbering system at all, it's just a sea of chords.

And by using it, I think you're likely to start hearing things like oh, that's a flat VI or here comes the V again.

Finally, I think that as the other post said in response, you would likely know the chord name if you use the numbering system--and if not, you'd probably know it's relationship to the root and possibly the rest of the chords in the progression.

[Bryan T]

They are both important, so learn both. From an ear training perspective, I think that learning chord function is more important. From a communication perspective, both are important.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by larryb

When trying to develop skills on progressions chord substitutions, is it more important to know the chord names or chord numbers? For example, in developing facility at transposing a particular progression, should I focus on learning the actual chord names (for example, GM7, GM6......) for the progression and the substitutions or is it more important to focus on memorizing the numbers (IM7, IM6....)?

Hi Larry…
I know both and as to which is more frequent it's chord names, as to which is more convenient, it's numbers. Roman numerals apply to any key and allow pretty instant transposition to other keys.

Both are very versatile, and if you know both you will be able to communicate with about anyone. I teach both, and my students become very flexible when it comes to playing/arranging/figuring out the same piece in multiple keys.

[Lacks Focus]

Chord numbers won't help you at all if you don't know the chord names, IMO. If you know you need to go from a I to a IV, how do you know what that IV is if you don't know the name of the I?

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by larryb

When trying to develop skills on progressions chord substitutions, is it more important to know the chord names or chord numbers? For example, in developing facility at transposing a particular progression, should I focus on learning the actual chord names (for example, GM7, GM6......) for the progression and the substitutions or is it more important to focus on memorizing the numbers (IM7, IM6....)?

Larry,
For my style which relies primarily on open tunings, a roman numeral chart works in any key, any tuning, any capo location.

As long as I know the first chord, I'm home free from there.

HE

[Allman_Fan]

Originally Posted by Lacks Focus

Chord numbers won't help you at all if you don't know the chord names, IMO. If you know you need to go from a I to a IV, how do you know what that IV is if you don't know the name of the I?

Bandleader tells you the key of the song along with the progression. He'll say, "It's a one, four, one, five in G. Two, three, four!"
And you better be there or you won't be asked to come back.

The numbers illustrate the underlying structure and (theoretically) allows you to play in any key.

But this is MY opinion. You need to figure out what works for you. There are many folks out there who don't know half of what I do "theory-wise," yet can outplay me on EVERY song you throw at them.

Vive la différence!

[walternewton]

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

Bandleader tells you the key of the song along with the progression. He'll say, "It's a one, four, one, five in G. Two, three, four!"

The numbers illustrate the underlying structure and (theoretically) allows you to play in any key.

Sure, but I think the point some have been making in that while the chord number system is certainly useful, in order to apply it you need to know the chord names as well - in your example you need to know that in the key of G the IV is C and the V is D.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by walternewton

Sure, but I think the point some have been making in that while the chord number system is certainly useful, in order to apply it you need to know the chord names as well - in your example you need to know that in the key of G the IV is C and the V is D.

Hi wn…
Sure you need to know chord names as well as numbers since they go hand in hand. It's not really a ''chicken or egg'' scenario since music is chord driven. I've never met anyone who leaned chords without names.

In fact someone already stated correctly that until we know the chord names we can't use the numbers, so really there is a fairly natural progression from chords/scales to numbers.

I teach my students to play scales and identify the notes/intervals by scale degree as well as name...and to build or dissect chords the same way.

Other cultures apply this in the way they handle Solfege (Do Re Mi Fa etc). Some use a fixed ''Do'' and others have the root assigned as ''Do''.

The ones who assign the Root of the key as ''Do'' are in essence using a number type approach, whereas the ones who fix ''Do'' as the note ''C'' are treating it like notation. This is a Fixed do chart…

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi wn…
Sure you need to know chord names as well as numbers since they go hand in hand. It's not really a ''chicken or egg'' scenario since music is chord driven. I've never met anyone who leaned chords without names.

In fact someone already stated correctly that until we know the chord names we can't use the numbers, so really there is a fairly natural progression from chords/scales to numbers.

I teach my students to play scales and identify the notes/intervals by scale degree as well as name...and to build or dissect chords the same way.

Other cultures apply this in the way they handle Solfege (Do Re Mi Fa etc). Some use a fixed ''Do'' and others have the root assigned as ''Do''.

The ones who assign the Root of the key as ''Do'' are in essence using a number type approach, whereas the ones who fix ''Do'' as the note ''C'' are treating it like notation. This is a Fixed do chart…

Doh!!!!

:-|

HE

[Allman_Fan]

Originally Posted by walternewton

Sure, but I think the point some have been making in that while the chord number system is certainly useful, in order to apply it you need to know the chord names as well - in your example you need to know that in the key of G the IV is C and the V is D.

Gotcha.

Honestly, I really didn't consider that because (in my mind) that's a given.

Another thing I'm thinking is bar chords and shapes you can use all over the neck. You learn the patterns based upon a beginning chord shape, and once they tell you the key . . . you're done!

[BigRed51]

In the bluegrass world, numbers make things alot easier. For example, if a song is played in the key of B, it would be typical that the guitar and banjo players are playing in the G position capoed at 4, but the mandolin, fiddle, and bass players don't have that luxury, SO you have people playing in two different keys. By using the number system, you can tell everyon the chord or chords in question at once, without having to transpose.

With that said, if you don't know the chord names for the key you are playing in, you will still be lost ...

[DupleMeter]

Walk before you run!

Learn the chord names, learn how to play them. Learn several forms for each of them. Then get into the theory of scales & chords.

Think of it like this. If you were a baby learning to talk, would people be explaining the rules of grammar to you? No, they get you to imitate actual speech and when you get older you are taught the grammar and rules behind plurals, tenses, et al that make up speech.

Take it one step at a time. Music is a cumulative experience. You need to learn the basics before the rest of it makes any sense, because it all comes back to the basics.

[Broadus]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

Walk before you run!

Learn the chord names, learn how to play them. Learn several forms for each of them. Then get into the theory of scales & chords.

Think of it like this. If you were a baby learning to talk, would people be explaining the rules of grammar to you? No, they get you to imitate actual speech and when you get older you are taught the grammar and rules behind plurals, tenses, et al that make up speech.

Take it one step at a time. Music is a cumulative experience. You need to learn the basics before the rest of it makes any sense, because it all comes back to the basics.

I need to hear this every so often to keep from getting frustrated. Thanks.

Bill