Home Studio Mic Recommendations

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by kurth

Kev...isn't half the problem most people face, other than those who live in the country, sound traveling the other way. And certainly building techniques has everything to do with that. I don't think the OP was using his closet to get warm. It was, as he said, to escape the noise.

Might be worth another thread, getting a bit far from "what mic do I need". But yes, noise is one aspect of the challenge of home recording. Planes, traffic, leaf blowers, kids watching TV, etc, etc, are all challenges for home recording. Even pro studios have to deal with some of these. I'd say, tho, that this is a fairly minor problem most of the time, because it's manageable. Record after traffic dies down, kids are in bed, etc. And if an airplane ruins a take, do it again. Unlike a pro studio, you're not on the clock.

The far bigger, more insidious issue is the impact of poor acoustics on the sound. Room Modes that create boomy notes, comb filtering that makes the sound harsh. Unbalanced frequency response that affects the sound, so on and so forth. These things affect not only tracking but your mixes, so you do a mix that you think sounds good, only to discover the mix doesn't sound good in your car or friend's stereo, etc. These things are tricky, because it's easy to blame other things: the mic, the guitar, monitors, headphones, etc, and some of those things may even also be a problem....

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

From what I hear from a friend of mine that is the head of the Photography department for a toy company= he says in the next five years his company will buy a large scanner(basically one or more camera's on a rotary bar...and they will simply scan the toy. No more complicated photography because they can drop in any background they want now. Plus...cameras can take 4 or more pictures at the same time, exposing differently for all the areas. Thus...arranging making all the areas well lit afterwards. It is all changing.

I would not know the first thing about how to operate the new pro cameras.

Today there are some really great photographers...and all of the photo programs to go with it. I myself...just use a higher quality point and shoot camera 99% of the time. And then adjust in Mac's Photo's.

We had nothing like that back in the day. We had to test every batch of film for color accuracy. That meant photographing a color chart. Then having that film analyzed,...and then putting a correctly gel in front of the lens. Or, going with the slight differences in color and using different Films to bring out the best in the Guitar.

Change is coming to a lot of industries. I think we're on the front end of something, the back end of which is hard to predict.

As for the new cameras, they're complicated, for sure, but they're also amazing pieces of tech that can do incredible things. I own a couple of Nikons, the D7100 and the D800e. I rarely touch the 7100 anymore but the 800 is a very good camera but is better suited for landscapes and portraits than it is for wildlife. The 800 was released about 11 years ago. Since then, the main development in the camera industry has been mirrorless cameras. I look at the releases when they come out and, until recently, none of the mirrorless offerings from Nikon blew me out of the water. They just didn't appear to offer much more than I could already do with my 800 ...until now.

I have an itch for the Nikon Z8 that I'm going to have to scratch. Nikon essential took just about everything from their flagship Z9 and put it in a smaller body. The reviews have been nearly universally excellent. Nikon has greatly improved their tracking software and the camera can now lock onto the eye of a bird in flight and maintain that focus while allowing the user to shoot 20 frames per second in RAW and 30 per second in JPG. By comparison, my D800e allows me to shoot 4 frames per second.

Strangely enough, last week I got into a discussion about photography with Bob Katz (the mastering engineer, not the '40s era pitcher for the Reds). Bob is a really nice guy and not at all stingy when it comes to giving advice on the art of audio mastering. Bob owns a D850 and Z8. He told me going from the D800 he used to own to the 850 was a huge jump in tech and camera performance. Then he said the jump from the 850 to the Z8 covered an even larger distance.

I'm hoping Nikon might run a sale for the holidays. I tend to doubt the Z8 will be included but I'm going to hold off and hope for a bit. If it doesn't go on sale, I'm probably going to bite anyway. Like I said, I have an itch.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by kurth

Kev...isn't half the problem most people face, other than those who live in the country, sound traveling the other way.

Yes but sound proofing is an entirely different subject and requires entirely different solutions, than sound absorption and room reflections .. And probably belongs in a different thread

[dilver]

Back to mics…

I picked up an AKG C214 recently and I’m really impressed with its versatility for micing vocals, acoustic and amps. Low end roll off switch is handy.

[Sasquatchian]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

* (If I remember correctly )...No the Knaub 1.6 is not as stiff as 703. The 3lb Knaub is. However...GIK feels that the 3lb...as well as 703 is too reflective. Claiming more precise methods of measuring, they have changed their viewpoints on absorption. They like combining two -two inch 1.6 lbs together. They claim better performance. Better Absorption. I too was interested in more stiff. But according to them Less stiff is better. They only carry the 3 lb out of obligation for being a dealer.

My panels both absorb (through the spaces in the pattern ) And scatter the frequencies. And then in the rear, they just absorb.

* Now as to your question about how did I get the guitars to stand straight up? ha ha....well that was actually pretty easy. Just shoved a thin stake into the ground behind them. And then attached Velcro to the stake and to the back of the guitar.

It took a little effort to get the Velcro off the back of the guitar afterwards...But hey...anything for a good picture.

I used the same technique in studio as well. But there I could lean the guitar back a tiny bit. I would drill a small hole in a sheet of 4 by 8 plywood. Screw down a small block and attach velcro to it, and then to the back of the guitar. Since the block was behind the guitar, you would never see it. I could even lift the guitar off the board a tiny bit.

I will boldly make a claim...that I was possibly the first to use a new lighting technique on Guitars some 40 plus years ago. Nothing revolutionary....Nothing that someone else would not have eventually done.....but it was completely different than anything I had ever seen before. The lighting technique helped see through see through colored finishes. Giving more accuracy to the shot. Now, this technique has become a staple in the industry. It is most often used by most of the big custom Acoustic Guitar sellers as well. Again, nothing that complicated...but it certainly works very well.

From what I hear from a friend of mine that is the head of the Photography department for a toy company= he says in the next five years his company will buy a large scanner(basically one or more camera's on a rotary bar...and they will simply scan the toy. No more complicated photography because they can drop in any background they want now. Plus...cameras can take 4 or more pictures at the same time, exposing differently for all the areas. Thus...arranging making all the areas well lit afterwards. It is all changing.

I would not know the first thing about how to operate the new pro cameras.



Today there are some really great photographers...and all of the photo programs to go with it. I myself...just use a higher quality point and shoot camera 99% of the time. And then adjust in Mac's Photo's.

We had nothing like that back in the day. We had to test every batch of film for color accuracy. That meant photographing a color chart. Then having that film analyzed,...and then putting a correctly gel in front of the lens. Or, going with the slight differences in color and using different Films to bring out the best in the Guitar.

It's sad how much disinformation we were fed back in the days of film photography. I've been shooting instruments, musicians, tools and pretty much everything else for forty plus years now, and, yes, we used to run color tests on film batches, but there was never any analysis other than seeing how much color correction was needed to make it neutral. The biggest scam back then was batch scanning, where they told you that every piece of film was going to be scanned at the same time with the same settings. Utter b.s., but it wasn't until I started drum scanning in '98 that I realized not only how easy it was to make a simple gray balance adjustment on each and every scan, but that you never actually "batched" all the scans as one giant scan. Heck, the tools didn't even exist to cut them all apart back then.

Even though I call myself semi-retired and spend as much time in the audio side of my photo studio these days, I'm still shooting both stills and video, including Kait Dunton's live recording at The Baked Potato this last Friday night where I'm curious to see how they hooked into the main mixing board there to do there recording.

And even though I still have a few film camera left, pretty much everything is on the modern digital, and for the last year and a half, the new Fuji medium format digital cameras, where the image quality so far outshines film, even drum scanned film, that it's hard to imagine just how we did it on film back in the day. And, btw, the learning curve on these new pro level cameras is very steep and it can easily take a year to get up to speed and then there is always new stuff you're discovering even when you thought you knew it already.

But the parallels between photography and music recording are so close that perhaps more audio folks should pay attention to photographic principles as well. Living with a full time professional musician, she often remarks how similar the process is between a professional photo studio and a professional recording studio. And how that relates to this discussion has a lot to do with reflections. Whenever I'm photographing a shiny product or anything reflective, I'm as much photographing the reflection as the object itself. Sound familiar? Photography is the same except that it's often but not always inverted from audio in that the subject itself is the source of the reflections rather than the walls or other surfaces, and then in photos, you try to control what your shiny objects reflect. The concepts are identical but we go about dealing with them just a bit differently.

The mantra I was taught in school every day for three and a half years at Art Center College in Pasadena, The Angle of Incidence Equals the Angle of Reflectance, which is obvious for photography, could easily apply to anyone dealing with audio reflections as well.

Nice shots of the Anderson's too.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Sasquatchian

It's sad how much disinformation we were fed back in the days of film photography. I've been shooting instruments, musicians, tools and pretty much everything else for forty plus years now, and, yes, we used to run color tests on film batches, but there was never any analysis other than seeing how much color correction was needed to make it neutral. The biggest scam back then was batch scanning, where they told you that every piece of film was going to be scanned at the same time with the same settings. Utter b.s., but it wasn't until I started drum scanning in '98 that I realized not only how easy it was to make a simple gray balance adjustment on each and every scan, but that you never actually "batched" all the scans as one giant scan. Heck, the tools didn't even exist to cut them all apart back then.

Even though I call myself semi-retired and spend as much time in the audio side of my photo studio these days, I'm still shooting both stills and video, including Kait Dunton's live recording at The Baked Potato this last Friday night where I'm curious to see how they hooked into the main mixing board there to do there recording.

And even though I still have a few film camera left, pretty much everything is on the modern digital, and for the last year and a half, the new Fuji medium format digital cameras, where the image quality so far outshines film, even drum scanned film, that it's hard to imagine just how we did it on film back in the day. And, btw, the learning curve on these new pro level cameras is very steep and it can easily take a year to get up to speed and then there is always new stuff you're discovering even when you thought you knew it already.

But the parallels between photography and music recording are so close that perhaps more audio folks should pay attention to photographic principles as well. Living with a full time professional musician, she often remarks how similar the process is between a professional photo studio and a professional recording studio. And how that relates to this discussion has a lot to do with reflections. Whenever I'm photographing a shiny product or anything reflective, I'm as much photographing the reflection as the object itself. Sound familiar? Photography is the same except that it's often but not always inverted from audio in that the subject itself is the source of the reflections rather than the walls or other surfaces, and then in photos, you try to control what your shiny objects reflect. The concepts are identical but we go about dealing with them just a bit differently.

The mantra I was taught in school every day for three and a half years at Art Center College in Pasadena, The Angle of Incidence Equals the Angle of Reflectance, which is obvious for photography, could easily apply to anyone dealing with audio reflections as well.

Nice shots of the Anderson's too.

Batch of film...meant the lot of film, made by the factory at a certain date. And it was true that there would be variances from lot to lot. The variances were super small, never the less they were there. Some of my clients were incredibility insistent on exact color matching of their products. Of course, exact color all depends on the Light temperature in which you are viewing. Then, getting the printing company to match the color was another issue all together. Often we had to sit on top of the printing companies to make sure the color was the same. It was all a little bit over the top as far as I was concerned. Color is going to look different if you are viewing outside or viewing in a room.

It was however a mandatory requirement for some companies. I had to shoot Gino Vannelli at his home studio for a console company. The console had a color of blue that was paramount to the company (to reproduce accurately). Using gels to correct for the film batch/lot....That was the assignment more than anything. Getting the color of the Console 100% correct. And that is what I was hired for even though Vannelli was in the picture at the console.

I also worked with steel for many years. And it was the same thing with steel. Each batch of steel could come out slightly different. This caused me some discomfort as you often did not know until you processed the steel that there was a difference.

And it could also be said the same thing of music equipment. Microphones, guitars, preamps sometimes used different components throughout the years. Usually out of necessity as that specific component was no longer being made.

Like yourself, I am not convinced all of the color correction was worth all of the extra effort. Like anything else...it is all in the perspective.

Unfortunately both in photography and in Music...I think in analog. And it has been a bit of a challenge for me to move in the digital age. But I am getting there thanks to my AGF Recording friends.

And getting back to the original subject matter...In our new age of electronics the new microphones just keep on improving for lesser dollars. I wonder if some day they will truly be able to mimic the old classics? Or, will there always be a difference? A small difference, never the less a difference. The next 20 years should yield some interesting new musical products.

[Br1ck]

As a modest home studio owner, for what I do, I like to buy one or two rungs up the ladder. I started with a Rode NT1, and bought an NT2 when a friend upgraded. I bought a MOTU M6 recently instead of one of the many $200 interfaces out there. I have never felt the NT2 needed upgrading. Along with a pair of SM57s, I bought a pair of SM81s, one of the best purchases I've made. The SM 81s handle acoustic guitar very well, and I generally record acoustic and vocals together. I've never been able to get the right feel tracking separately, and I hate click tracks. I learn to play, and track the whole take at once.

If I were to buy another mic, it would be a Shure SM7B. Love them for vocals.

Once you leave the world of $500 mics, just bring a truckload of money. If you buy a $1000 mic, you'll need to upgrade your mic pres. Yes a $2000 mic and a $2000 mic pre will sound glorious. It's pretty much the same as moving up from a D 18. Small improvement for big money. Worth it? Sure.

A big revelation was buying the MOTU M6. The Performer Lite that came with it had some test recording setups, and one was called singer/songwriter, so I opened it up as my first recording test. It sounded great. When I went in to see what processing they were using, I was astounded that the acoustic guitar tracks had very minimal processing, mainly some low cut with a parametric. No reverb, no delay. I mic'd up the guitar with the SM 81s, panned one mic left, the other right and needed no more. The vocal had no reverb, but a fair amount of delay. A lesson in less is more for sure.

As I'm completely acoustic these days, I add no more than a mandolin or dobro, with a bit of bass or not, as I see fit. You can have a lot of fun with inexpensive, but not the cheapest, gear. There are a lot of hundred dollar mic shaped objects. The only good ones are Shure 57s and 58s, at least that I've used.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

There are a lot of hundred dollar mic shaped objects.

:-). This reminds me of the Temu ad I keep seeing. They have a "U87" mic. Sells for like $19.95, and the ad says it's made out of "real metal". But it is definitely mic shaped!

[b1j]

I hope this is OK and taken in the spirit of neutrality I mean it to have.

This conversation, and an earlier one about grabbing a new LA-2A compressor, have reminded me of a message Joe Gilder sent out to his mailing list this week. It considers the pursuit of gear and meshes pretty well with my view. I offer it to anyone interested.

“ When I’m in one of my guitar-obsessed phases, I watch a lot of rig rundown videos on YouTube. I’m not all that interested in the exact gear these famous guitarists use, but I am interested in the reasons behind their choices.

Why a Marshall instead of a Vox? Why single coils instead of humbuckers? The answers are almost always centered around how a particular piece of gear made them feel more than simply the specifics of how it works or even how it sounds.

Then I stumbled across this video with Tom Morello from a few years back (the guy from Rage Against the Machine, Audioslave, etc.). When talking about finding the right guitar for him, he dropped this truth bomb. I actually typed it up and printed it out to keep forever. Here’s a pic of it:

"Honestly, I gave up. I was trying to get a guitar that would be my perfect sound and was banging my head against the wall. I
just said,
'I'm gonna stop right now. This is gonna be my guitar, and I'm just gonna create with what I've got.' That was very liberating. It was no longer chasing sounds, it was
embracing the sound I had and using that to make music."
- Tom Morello Rig Rundown - Tom Morello





Now, I’ve got nothing against new gear. Sometimes a new guitar or plugin can inspire you to make music, and that’s wonderful. But sometimes the search for the ultimate piece of equipment is a futile one, one that fills you with frustration rather than inspiration.

There’s something powerful that happens when you choose to stay the course…

…to stay in a marriage when things get difficult.

…to stick to a business even when it’s not what you hoped it would be.

…to keep writing songs even when you hear crickets every time you share something.

As Harvard-educated rock star Tom Morello put it, choosing to stick with something can be very liberating.

As much as I love to buy new toys and collect beautiful things, I love creating music and building a body of work even more.

Let’s be creators first, collectors second.

Deal?

Joe Gilder
Home Studio Corner”

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by b1j

"Honestly, I gave up. I was trying to get a guitar that would be my perfect sound and was banging my head against the wall. I
just said,
'I'm gonna stop right now. This is gonna be my guitar, and I'm just gonna create with what I've got.'

I think that's a very valid viewpoint. Don't let the hunt for better gear, or better technique, or better anything hold you back. Make music with what you have. If you wait until everything is perfect, you've found the perfect guitar, the perfect mic, the perfect room acoustics, or learned to play as well as one of your heros, you may never create anything. Jump in and get started. If you wait until everything is perfect, it'll never happen.

At the same time, you want to progress (I assume). Part of that (a big part) is learning how to use the gear you have. Another part may be learning about gear or techniques that could be useful, things you don't know about. Or listening to what you are doing, thinking you could do better, and trying new things. I bring up old recording projects of mine, and go "what are all these plugins? I don't use those anymore, and don't even remember using them". FWIW, I also think my older recordings aren't as good as my current ones on the rare occasion I listen to them, which is kind of a good thing, hopefully means I'm making progress (or deluding myself).

So my take would be "don't wait, but keep working on improvement as you go".

[alohachris]

Aloha,

The problem, I think, is that too many player/recordists get stuck in the progression process of educating our ears, treating our spaces properly or really putting together signal chains that are beyond entry-level. Or they just hate the recordings they make & cannot improve.

Something always comes along that halts the progression.

I struggled for decades using mostly lower level or mediocre or used gear in untreated spaces. And as my ears got educated, I heard that I wasn't progressing in my recordings. So some years I was recording, & some years I didn't bother. Then I got addicted to searching for the best mic's for me & my self-made instruments & I learned a whole new, very exciting game.

That satisfying & fun processes taught me how to leverage existing gear to move up the trough quicker than I ever thought. Taught me how to find out where it could be found & who had it. And it didn't take that long before I moved way beyond entry-level gear & into signal chains, mic's, gear & & shoot-out's that really finally satisfied my ears - & my recordings.

Suddenly, I was able to audition the best gear at home in my little acoustic studio up in the rain forest out here in the Islands. Those fast (over the weekend) home shoot-outs were the absolute best. Found helpful rental houses & resources all over the world.

I also got introduced to the real money international players & other addicts in the high-end mic trading & selling markets - a complete revelation. Invariably, they were all incredibly honest in their transactions & opinions. A Great education for this Island boy.

I traded famous $20K mic's after a decade or so, learning what products I could leverage to get what I wanted, what things were worth & why, - ALL in the name of trying to hear how I could sound playing & recording through the best mic's & gear in the world - in MY studio. I went all the way in with it.

Finally, life progressed into my 70's, and it was finally time to stop obsessing on all this audio stuff. So I sold it all off & concentrated more on my simple music & songwriting again. I much prefer to share a song with a new friend at the beach, to recording all day in a dark studio, playing back the same song for days & wearing headphones.

The point is, for me, I went beyond what was practical for most folks in trying to create & hear better sound & make better home recordings. And I am so glad that I did. From my 50's on, I finally played through the best live & recording signal chains for me - my voice, my home-made instruments & my goals for recording. I got plenty of help from several AGF friends here in putting them all together - MAHALO GUYS! And I finally committed to spending the real money necessary to do that.

I firmly believe that one simply cannot record on the cheap & get great results, no matter how talented. I also believe that even if you cannot afford the best stuff, your ears should know the differences (& that means going out & listening to it). Most of the time, I believe we should leave recording to the guys who really live & breathe it. No matter how good we get guys, we simply can never put enough time in to know what the pro's know, no matter how close we get with our simple acoustic recordings. So take your high quality tracks to an ME & let him make it all come to life. More practical if you think about it. Really.

Me? I just knew there was better stuff out there - beyond even what is typically discussed by the real pro's here at AGF. When I finally heard & found what I was looking for, I just stopped looking. I was satisfied. Boom! That was it. But the many decades of dedication to the process of hearing the latest 'best stuff' is definitely not for everyone. I know that. Can't tell you how many times I flew to LA or to NAMM to listen to gear, Sheesh! We all must know when it's "good enough" & the GAS is Ovah!

I truly loved going as far as I wanted to go into this shared hobby of ours - & my ears really loved the process, & especially all the great people I learned from along the way here at AGF & beyond.

Still my process was so far-reaching, global & so satisfying & too much fun, for so long. Sheesh! Luckily, my regular gigging money paid for it all, all my signal chains, gear, DAW training, & 'weird science' experiments - through every generation of analog through digital gear -, so I could manage purchases as I saw fit. Hundreds of thousands of dollars over six decades - not that much really. I recouped a lot of it back from tape & CD sales at my nightly gigs of home & studio recordings I made at home. Tourists paid for most of it! That is, until my fingers went numb & I had to shut it all down & stop playing & gigging. But I had a great run!!! And I still play a song or two everyday through my killer PA system, still set up in my living room. Those custom Curly Koa Daedalus' 803 three-ways from Lou still shine with clarity after 20 years. (I cut, seasoned & provided the Koa for those beauties). Ha!

Just sharing this long tome for others who wonder where this GAS & recording hobby can lead a player/ recordist. As far as I'm concerned? No limits friends!!! Just keep pickin.'

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

PS: I sure would like to see more AGF threads comparing the best mic/preamp combo's out there, or the high-end LDC's $2,3,4,5K, etc. that can make you sound like Sinatra instead of typically, the "best $300 mic's,". Surely some here (beyond sdelsolray & the pro's) have been curious enough to do their own shoot-outs at home, right? Or own a pair of real vintage U-47's, not Chinese-made 'Warm' clones? Or whose ears know the sonic differences & can express them?!? -alohachris -

[EZYPIKINS]

The higher quality microphone you use, the more it will pick up.

If you spend $1000.+ on a microphone, just know that you will likely pick up your clock ticking in the kitchen. Someone flushing a toilet upstairs. Your A/C kicking on, or your neighbor, mowing his lawn.

Others here are correct. First thing you want to do is make your room sound better.

Think of the difference between say, a plastic guitar, vs a laminate guitar, vs a solid wood guitar.

Each will have its own sound.

Every room in your house, has its own sound as well.

You might try just moving to a different room. Easy, cheap,

[kurth]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha,

The problem, I think, is that too many player/recordists get stuck in the progression process of educating our ears, treating our spaces properly or really putting together signal chains that are beyond entry-level. Or they just hate the recordings they make & cannot improve.

Something always comes along that halts the progression.

I struggled for decades using mostly lower level or mediocre or used gear in untreated spaces. And as my ears got educated, I heard that I wasn't progressing in my recordings. So some years I was recording, & some years I didn't bother. Then I got addicted to searching for the best mic's for me & my self-made instruments & I learned a whole new, very exciting game.

That satisfying & fun processes taught me how to leverage existing gear to move up the trough quicker than I ever thought. Taught me how to find out where it could be found & who had it. And it didn't take that long before I moved way beyond entry-level gear & into signal chains, mic's, gear & & shoot-out's that really finally satisfied my ears - & my recordings.

Suddenly, I was able to audition the best gear at home in my little acoustic studio up in the rain forest out here in the Islands. Those fast (over the weekend) home shoot-outs were the absolute best. Found helpful rental houses & resources all over the world.

I also got introduced to the real money international players & other addicts in the high-end mic trading & selling markets - a complete revelation. Invariably, they were all incredibly honest in their transactions & opinions. A Great education for this Island boy.

I traded famous $20K mic's after a decade or so, learning what products I could leverage to get what I wanted, what things were worth & why, - ALL in the name of trying to hear how I could sound playing & recording through the best mic's & gear in the world - in MY studio. I went all the way in with it.

Finally, life progressed into my 70's, and it was finally time to stop obsessing on all this audio stuff. So I sold it all off & concentrated more on my simple music & songwriting again. I much prefer to share a song with a new friend at the beach, to recording all day in a dark studio, playing back the same song for days & wearing headphones.

The point is, for me, I went beyond what was practical for most folks in trying to create & hear better sound & make better home recordings. And I am so glad that I did. From my 50's on, I finally played through the best live & recording signal chains for me - my voice, my home-made instruments & my goals for recording. I got plenty of help from several AGF friends here in putting them all together - MAHALO GUYS! And I finally committed to spending the real money necessary to do that.

I firmly believe that one simply cannot record on the cheap & get great results, no matter how talented. I also believe that even if you cannot afford the best stuff, your ears should know the differences (& that means going out & listening to it). Most of the time, I believe we should leave recording to the guys who really live & breathe it. No matter how good we get guys, we simply can never put enough time in to know what the pro's know, no matter how close we get with our simple acoustic recordings. So take your high quality tracks to an ME & let him make it all come to life. More practical if you think about it. Really.

Me? I just knew there was better stuff out there - beyond even what is typically discussed by the real pro's here at AGF. When I finally heard & found what I was looking for, I just stopped looking. I was satisfied. Boom! That was it. But the many decades of dedication to the process of hearing the latest 'best stuff' is definitely not for everyone. I know that. Can't tell you how many times I flew to LA or to NAMM to listen to gear, Sheesh! We all must know when it's "good enough" & the GAS is Ovah!

I truly loved going as far as I wanted to go into this shared hobby of ours - & my ears really loved the process, & especially all the great people I learned from along the way here at AGF & beyond.

Still my process was so far-reaching, global & so satisfying & too much fun, for so long. Sheesh! Luckily, my regular gigging money paid for it all, all my signal chains, gear, DAW training, & 'weird science' experiments - through every generation of analog through digital gear -, so I could manage purchases as I saw fit. Hundreds of thousands of dollars over six decades - not that much really. I recouped a lot of it back from tape & CD sales at my nightly gigs of home & studio recordings I made at home. Tourists paid for most of it! That is, until my fingers went numb & I had to shut it all down & stop playing & gigging. But I had a great run!!! And I still play a song or two everyday through my killer PA system, still set up in my living room. Those custom Curly Koa Daedalus' 803 three-ways from Lou still shine with clarity after 20 years. (I cut, seasoned & provided the Koa for those beauties). Ha!

Just sharing this long tome for others who wonder where this GAS & recording hobby can lead a player/ recordist. As far as I'm concerned? No limits friends!!! Just keep pickin.'

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

PS: I sure would like to see more AGF threads comparing the best mic/preamp combo's out there, or the high-end LDC's $2,3,4,5K, etc. that can make you sound like Sinatra instead of typically, the "best $300 mic's,". Surely some here (beyond sdelsolray & the pro's) have been curious enough to do their own shoot-outs at home, right? Or own a pair of real vintage U-47's, not Chinese-made 'Warm' clones? Or whose ears know the sonic differences & can express them?!? -alohachris -

So chris ...you think other people have the funds to spend 100's of thousands of dollars on gear? Most of us have families with other more pressing needs, like surgeries, births, illnesses, food and transportation....and then connected families who have their needs who struggle as well. The truth is, for me...the more money I throw at my creative needs, the more guilty I feel. So many other real needs from my family and their circle. And before you're gonna sound like Sinatra...well you're gonna need to sing like Sinatra first. I say that part out loud....let us hear the results of your quest, and judge for ourselves if spending hundreds of thousands of dollars was worth the difference. Because 99% would say not. I think you can get 90% with a $300 mic...and if that doesn't show talent, then a 5000buck mic won't either.

And beyond ....thinking that recording your music will itself make a return profit....that was a collective dream we had, but isn't true. Anything that is digitized will be free for the taking. Musicians will be forced to play if they want money from their music. There's a reason all these big stars play arenas. So recordings become nothing more than a calling card. thanks but I'll use cheap ink.

[alohachris]

Aloha,

Yes I spent hundreds of thousand$ on gear - not all at once - BUT OVER 60 YEARS!!! That's not that much when you consider I was a pro gigger for most of that time.

My goals included progressing to the best gear I could afford over time so I wouldn't wonder if I could have sounded better than I could have naturally. So I went for it. Very happy I did.

AND, I paid for it ALL with gig money. At the end on my gigging career, I was playing the better rooms & gigs out here, getting $300/night for three hours & about $200-300 in tips in the better rooms. So I actually earned a lot more over all that time (60 years) playing out than I spent in gear. And I sold A LOT (many thousand$) of tapes & CD's ($10-15 a pop) to returning tourists over those years. That's where the recording skills, ears & knowledge came in, for profit.

I gigged when it was fun to be a performer, when the audience was engaged, listening to the stories & jokes, & wholly present, not distracted by techno gear like today. I made money from home recordings I created in the analog/early digital era before everything was online & musicians had to give it away for free. Lucky me for getting into this in the 60's. I would not wish to be gigging now. Ironically, DAW recording today empowers player/recordists with the potential for pro results. It's just harder to find a way to sell or get out your music today.

And yes, I had a day job career (as a well-known business owner) & raised a family while all this music was going on. Gratefully, I was able to live on very little sleep for decades (catching up now at 78). I didn't spend the real money on the big time gear until I was in my 50's, at the peak of my earning powers. I wanted to play through the best gear - and found a way to make it work, without guilt. And yes, the wonderful, art-deco $5K Microtech-Gefell UM900 was the answer to my voice's recording prayers. YES! There is a HUGE difference among mic's on the same voice. Try 'em!

Kurth, when you show us your treated room, then we'll listen to what you have to say. Why all your resistance to it in previous posts? As I mentioned, it wasn't until I fully committed to room treatment that I was able to achieve consistency & control in my vocal & acoustic instrument recordings. It made the biggest difference. It's where every player/ recordist should start his recording journey - get treated first!

alohachris

PS: How would you know how you sound through a $5000 LDC mic, let alone a $300 LDC, yet? You don't need to spend thousands, yet (but you can't record on the cheap either). Write down your goals for recording. Then Start with DIY, portable Room Treatment. Good Luck! - alohachris -

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by kurth

I think you can get 90% with a $300 mic...and if that doesn't show talent, then a 5000buck mic won't either.

Sure, talent will transcend the gear, but there's a reason studios don't buy $300 mics to record great talent. It's not to show off. Believe me, I'd go cheaper if there wasn't such a huge difference in quality, and so would every other studio owner. It would certainly make turning a profit as a studio easier.

I know we all want to believe that the $300 mic is good enough...but it's not. Not for that level of recording. And anyone who says they can't hear a difference simply can't hear the difference. The difference is definitely there. The fact that one can't hear it only points out the need to better train the ears.

Go listen to the guitar on Tony Rice's Unit Of Measure album...I don't mean his playing...just the capture of the tone of his guitar. How big & bold it is without being at all unbalanced or out of place. Listen to the space around the guitar...how dimensional it feels. That can't be captured with cheap gear.