Netflix - The Social Dilemma

[HodgdonExtreme]

Overheard some folks chatting about this the other day; had some free time last night so I watched it.

Wow.

I do not use FB, twitter, istagram, tiktok, etc - because I was of the opinion that stuff is malware. I had no idea how deep and insidious this stuff actually is.

This documentary, scattered with a fictitious "could be" storyline, includes mostly interviews with both current and former social media managers and programmers.

Highly recommend checking this out.

"If you are not paying for the product... You are the product."

Check it out.

[jpd]

Thanks for the heads up!

[Dirk Hofman]

Here's a distilled version of one part of this problem. A group called Growth Design breaks down user flows for various apps, evaluating onboarding flows, ease of use, etc. Here they break down Facebook and why false information gets shared so quickly on social platforms. Uses the election as an example but applies to any false information.

https://growth.design/case-studies/f...isinformation/

[HodgdonExtreme]

^That does a fair job summing up one significant bummer associated with social media, but I'm not sure their proposal on "the fix" is viable.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by HodgdonExtreme

^That does a fair job summing up one significant bummer associated with social media, but I'm not sure their proposal on "the fix" is viable.

Yeah, I don't think it's meant as "the fix" but rather one interface idea for mitigating things a bit. Agree it's not even close to enough.

[AX17609]

If you want to feel your head explode, watch "The Great Hack" also on Netflix.

[Mandobart]

I recently watched this as well. It's worth seeing. I have no idea how factual or current the information is. Most of it comes from retired/disenchanted/possibly remorseful former high ranking industry insiders. Possibly grinding a few axes, possibly very accurate.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by HodgdonExtreme

Overheard some folks chatting about this the other day; had some free time last night so I watched it.

Wow.

I do not use FB, twitter, istagram, tiktok, etc - because I was of the opinion that stuff is malware. I had no idea how deep and insidious this stuff actually is.

This documentary, scattered with a fictitious "could be" storyline, includes mostly interviews with both current and former social media managers and programmers.

Highly recommend checking this out.

"If you are not paying for the product... You are the product."

Check it out.

The platforms are not malware but they can spread it. They are not necessarily dangerous but can be just like Some see more TV in a day than I do in 1-2 months.

Facebook owns a firm call CrowdTangle for data analysis. A guy Kevin Roose known in tech circles takes that service and posts a Facebook top ten via Twitter you might find interesting. The top 10 performing link posts can tell you who and what a huge lot of people are following or responding to.

Sam Harris who can be very interesting did a recent podcast with titled Cult Factory that's worth the listen on social media.

As much as people get worked up about the staring at screens and being manipulated, don't forget homo sapiens have been staring at them in their living rooms for a long time and getting nonsense in other ways.

In meanwhile I'll consider watching that when I get back to my Netflix account.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

I recently watched this as well. It's worth seeing. I have no idea how factual or current the information is. Most of it comes from retired/disenchanted/possibly remorseful former high ranking industry insiders. Possibly grinding a few axes, possibly very accurate.

Why I like what some do with the CrowdTangle and other data. It's current and you can know the methods or what the reporting is.

[Mr. Jelly]

I don't think that is the biggest problem with social media. It's that it is a psychological algorithm drug. It's the warm and fuzzy attention and payoff that is addicting.

[OKCtodd71]

You can never discount that many people are thoughtless herd following idiot zombies. They'll buy (into) whatever is marketed to them; look around you at all the folks living their lives via a 5 inch screen. They somehow "think" they have hundreds of "friends"; how many of those friends would drive to the airport at 2am to give them a lift home? I use a smartphone ("phone" IMHO is code for personal computer) when I need to use it. I don't live through it. I can do lots of things, including using the bathroom, without a phone. Not kidding, go to lowe's and look at toilet paper holders - they now have shelves built into them to set your phone on. Not to sound too harsh but honestly every time I see an adult starring at a screen playing jewel drop/candy crush, I think to myself, if that were my lifestyle I'd just as soon be dead, similar to how I feel about surviving a crippling stroke, ALZ, or "waiting to die" in a nursing home or burdening family.
I know this sounds hostile but it's really just shock at the foolishness of the masses. We have at least a certain level of freedom in how we live our lives. Live however you want, but I'll happily avoid what I have no interest. Fwiw, I don't think my point of view on this, "costs me any friends".

[HodgdonExtreme]

Originally Posted by imwjl

The platforms are not malware but they can spread it.

As much as people get worked up about the staring at screens and being manipulated, don't forget homo sapiens have been staring at them in their living rooms for a long time and getting nonsense in other ways.

I looked up the definition of "malware" and you are correct - the social media platforms don't qualify, as they are not specifically designed to hurt your computer/device. Personally, I feel like they are specifically designed to harm other things - but again, that doesn't fit the definition of malware.

Regarding your comment about TV being a precedent for the current proliferation of media, I'll point to Mr. Jelly's post below as a segue into my own point:

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

I don't think that is the biggest problem with social media. It's that it is a psychological algorithm drug. It's the warm and fuzzy attention and payoff that is addicting.

TV programs were/are absolutely designed to capture peoples' attention, effectively giving them a "hit" of mental enjoyment. However, I'd argue that until very recently, TV never had enough choices to effectively trigger our receptors non-stop, nor did they supply the interactivity aspect the way SM does. A big piece of human nature is considering how oneself fits within a society; survival often counted it. These factors, in my opinion, make the consequences of SM much more acute, as compared to TV.

And finally, in response to Mr Jelly directly:

You've correctly assessed what allows for the biggest problem of SM. The actual biggest problem, as I see it, is how that addiction can be manipulated to "brainwash" (certainly not the best term, but you get the idea, hopefully) people into acting and/or thinking a certain way. Dangerous stuff, especially considering the puppet strings are for sale to whomever can afford to pay for the advertising slots.

[Th'Axe]

OKC-You might not lose any friends, but you might gain a couple

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by HodgdonExtreme

TV programs were/are absolutely designed to capture peoples' attention, effectively giving them a "hit" of mental enjoyment. However, I'd argue that until very recently, TV never had enough choices to effectively trigger our receptors non-stop, nor did they supply the interactivity aspect the way SM does. A big piece of human nature is considering how oneself fits within a society; survival often counted it. These factors, in my opinion, make the consequences of SM much more acute, as compared to TV.

That was the bit I wanted to respond to as well. TV is a passive medium. Yeah, it was called the "idiot box" for a long time, and with good reason. The problem here is that Facebook has created an active experience, where users create a multiplier effect. Because of the interaction model and people's active participation, false stories travel 600% faster than true ones, because they get people worked up.

It's a disinformation machine the likes of which we've never seen. The danger is exponentially greater than misinformation on TV.

[OKCtodd71]

Originally Posted by Th'Axe

OKC-You might not lose any friends, but you might gain a couple

I hear you man. I'm really not a antisocial hermit, I'm actually a very good friend I don't mind saying. I have never had more than.....less than a handful of close friends. Friends I would give anything I have to, no questions asked, no hesitation. As mentioned above, a close friend is someone you can call at 3am when in need and at the same time you would be happy to help them out when you get a call from them during Christmas dinner (did so and would do it again). I have had other people I've been on friendly terms with and still am, but it not the same hardcore thing. I had a boss for several years and we got along well. We started going out for drinks and dinners after work, (it was a woman but purely platonic/we both work in a crazy place thing) sometimes my wife would join us. Anyway, as she got more sucked in to her phone screen, FB, etc. like so many people, "chatting during happy hour" became more and more "having a drink by myself sitting next to Beth". I would rather sit at home by myself than sit at a table with someone ignoring me.
I actually have a new, almost 2 years, friend in my current home town. He uses his phone but he would never pick it up and read something while anyone is talking with him, and he gets peeved if someone does that while he's talking. As you might expect, we get along great and just happen to agree on many issues. I'm happy to be friends with anyone who treats me with the same level of respect I give to them.
Sorry, I'm awfully long winded today.