Tonal Qualities of Oak - Page 2

Wade Hampton · #16 07-25-2014, 02:36 AM

I agree that a rough description is about all I'm capable of with oak as a tonewood!

whm

ewh2 · #17 07-25-2014, 03:50 AM

Here's a guitar with Oak back and sides

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgJkAnB4EAI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1AetWKkSHE

psychojohn · #18 07-25-2014, 06:09 AM

Thanks to all. Very informative.

John

Alan Carruth · #19 07-25-2014, 10:48 AM

Oak has damping similar to maple and much spruce: I'd call it 'moderate'.

I wonder more and more as time goes on just exactly what role wood damping has in the sound. The damping of the finished structure is probably important, and the wood may set some sort of limit on that, but it's pretty easy to make a highly damped structure out of wood that has relatively low damping. Also, it seems to me that density may be more of a factor in back woods than damping: African blackwood has higher damping than BRW, but some very good makers prefer it. Maybe that's because it's also denser? Basically, it seems to me that the back has to move before it's intrinsic damping will make any difference, and a heavy back may not move much.

In the end it comes down to: "how do you know"? It seems as though high damping should be a bad thing, but, really, have you ever done or heard of a well controlled experiment to find out? Just thinking about how to do that is enough to give me a headache. The one time I tried it, comparing oak and BRW, suggested that higher damping in the back may affect the trebles a bit, but how can I be sure there were no other confounding variables? The two guitars didn't sound much different, and I've heard similar variation between guitars made of 'the same' material, so it's hard to say. I'm also wary of assigning values to wood when I haven't tested it. Every species varies, and I have some mahogany that is right in the 'rosewood' class in terms of density, stiffness and damping, just as one example.

perttime · #20 07-25-2014, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perttime

... comparison between a "rosewood guitar" and an "oak guitar" ... I think that more clarity and less overtones for oak would be a good - rough - description,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

I agree that a rough description is about all I'm capable of with oak as a tonewood!

I hope I didn't come across as if I were belittling your capabilities. My intention was more to qualify mine. English isn't my first language.

People sometimes start questions about "tonewood" comparisons with "All other things being equal..." But with wooden instruments things are never equal. So, all comparisons are rough. With some woods, there's so much evidence that tendencies are pretty clear. For oak, your experiences playing and mine in a short side-by side comparison seem to agree.

Wade Hampton · #21 07-25-2014, 01:37 PM

After perttime wrote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by perttime
... comparison between a "rosewood guitar" and an "oak guitar" ... I think that more clarity and less overtones for oak would be a good - rough - description,

I replied:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton
I agree that a rough description is about all I'm capable of with oak as a tonewood!

Then perttime responded from his computer room somewhere in Suomen Tasavalta:

Quote:

Originally Posted by perttime

I hope I didn't come across as if I were belittling your capabilities. My intention was more to qualify mine. English isn't my first language.

Oh, no, not at all. Please don't think I was insulted. And your English is far better than my Finnish: I can order a beer, ask for a dance, and know enough Finnish obscenities to get thrown off a Helsinki tram, but that's about it. If you were to ask guitar-related questions in English and I were to (attempt to) answer them in Finnish, it would read something like this:

You: "What do you think of oak as a tonewood, Wade?"

Me: "Paiva, paiva!

You: "But how does it compare to other tonewoods?"

Me: "Perrrrrrrrrr-kala! Sisu!"

You: "Should I sell all my other guitars and get one made of oak instead?"

Me: "Voy viitu! Haluaisen Lapin Kulta!"

So, as you can gather, we're probably better off BOTH sticking to English for the purposes of this discussion....

Quote:

Originally Posted by perttime

People sometimes start questions about "tonewood" comparisons with "All other things being equal..." But with wooden instruments things are never equal. So, all comparisons are rough. With some woods, there's so much evidence that tendencies are pretty clear. For oak, your experiences playing and mine in a short side-by side comparison seem to agree.

Looks that way!

I think if oak was used more often for guitars and people had a chance to play oak guitars in music stores, a significant percentage of players would own, use and prefer them. It's a good tonewood. But it remains an outlier, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Wade Hampton Miller

jumbomumbo · #22 07-25-2014, 01:44 PM

Martin used to offer Red Oak as an optional back and sides in the 80's as well as produced some runs of Oak Dreads back then too. They sounded very much like Ash and had impressive projection but not deep bass.

johnnydobbers · #23 07-25-2014, 01:53 PM

I have a few videos on youtube of my fraulini erma with white oak back and sides...i love it and it has been in my possession longer than any guitar before it.

Search "bluesguy1977 fraulini" in youtube

redir · #24 07-25-2014, 01:54 PM

I don't have enough experience using oak but here's a little parlor guitar I built with oak. The top was some sort of pine, I don't know what because it was just a plank on the old barn on the farm. The bracing was X-Bracing with Sitka. It's one of my favorite guitars and for it's size it has a lot of volume and sustain with very complex over tones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctm3nBTKUyU

MrBJones · #25 07-25-2014, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

I had a Taylor Pallet in my collection for a few years featuring Koa from an old pallet...

Holy cow...that was one expensive pallet!

What did they burn in their fireplace???

Earl49 · #26 07-25-2014, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

I had a Taylor Pallet in my collection for a few years featuring Koa from an old pallet for the back and sides

When touring a macadamia nut farm on the Big Island a few years ago, they mentioned that macs used were once used primarily as cattle feed. I think macadamias run at least $25 per pound these days.

Ted @ LA Guitar Sales · #27 07-25-2014, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBJones

Holy cow...that was one expensive pallet!

What did they burn in their fireplace???

Good catch, the pallet was Oak of course not Koa.

BTW, although I didn't have much time with it, we did have a Martin Arts & Crafts model go through the shop with Oak back and sides a few years back. I didn't think to compare the tone at the time to other tone woods but it was simply amazing!

ewh2 · #28 07-25-2014, 02:52 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrWLapF62TE

A video for the Martin Oak guitar

redir · #29 07-27-2014, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

Good catch, the pallet was Oak of course not Koa.

BTW, although I didn't have much time with it, we did have a Martin Arts & Crafts model go through the shop with Oak back and sides a few years back. I didn't think to compare the tone at the time to other tone woods but it was simply amazing!

What a beauty!

mstuartev · #30 07-27-2014, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redir

I don't have enough experience using oak but here's a little parlor guitar I built with oak. The top was some sort of pine, I don't know what because it was just a plank on the old barn on the farm. The bracing was X-Bracing with Sitka. It's one of my favorite guitars and for it's size it has a lot of volume and sustain with very complex over tones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctm3nBTKUyU

This oak box has the snappy jazzy mojo of 30's Epiphone archtop. Nice!