Acoustic amps! What's your opinion.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by VKB

What about along those same lines the 8" in the aer's vs.12" in some of those previously mentioned? I take it the compact 60 doesn't thin comparatively, for instance vs. The SWR CB?

also, can you break down what you mean specifically with "finest", in what respects does it best your others?

I'm no engineer, but I'm pretty sure that there's more to what makes one amp sound "thinner" than another than just the size of it's speakers--although that can certainly be a factor. The 12" speaker in the GB ProLT sounds fuller and warmer to me than the one in the 150LT and that's in part because its a different 12" speaker, but also other things about the amp (headroom, cabinet, etc.). But it's not a night and day difference--except when you blend in the Pro's tube preamp, at which point it exchanges some of its transparency for a warm and very slightly, sort of gauzily, distorted sound that I really like.

Among the amps in the "over $1000" category, I ended up buying the ProLT because it had more force, if that makes sense--not just volume, but a more physical sound to the strum with my guitar, and that's what I needed for playing in my band. The AER has a more transparent sound and can fill the space in a room in an almost uncanny way. If I were a finger-style soloist, I would have bought one, but it wasn't the sound I needed for what I do.

I had a DS-4 before the GB and liked that amp very much for just playing guitar alone or in small acoustic ensembles. It didn't have the force I needed in the band either--although it was also plenty loud. I also like the ProLT for voice better.

In any case, among the under $500 amps I've tried, the DS-4 or one of the Loudboxes would me my choice.

Louis

[pdjr1991]

Originally Posted by GregEL

I use a Taylor 414ce (with ES) and a Fishman Loudbox Mini. The Loudbox Mini is a perfect combination with my Taylor, you can use it as a monitor, there's an input jack for aux devices, two channels with separate EQs (both guitar and mic), line out, it's really light to carry, has reverb and chorus, is not too expensive and sounds way bigger than it looks (60 watts). If possible try one out before you buy anything. I use mine for my coffee shop gigs and at home. Had a Marshall AS100D for a short while but could barely lift it.

Here's a nice review:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRlnyGYAXDY

Good luck!

Thanks, that was very helpful!

[pdjr1991]

The Fishman loudbox is sounding pretty good to me. Im wondering about the mini vs the artist series.

[SpiderTrap]

Depends what you want to use it for ...I have 2 Roland Street Cubes...for small Venues one is more than enough . Advertised at 5 Watts but the sound is incredible , sounds more like 20 or 30 watts, especially on vocals . Everything I have now is Battery operated either NiMh C Cells or 12c volt deep Cycle with SINE WAVE INverter to AC voltage. DA 5 Vox for taking to the beach and playing either acoustic or electric , VERY SMALL BUT BIG Sound ...and battery operated Drummer for some Rhythm . My Suggestion is to Keep it AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE...From DECADES of Experience you DO NOT NEED ALOT of Power to get Great Sound, - unless you're playing an auditorium ...Watch some YOU TUBE giggers and see what they have . There are so many choices out there now , that were not just 10 years ago . I love the advantage of going full AC or
DC - so I can play anywhere ... as people look and ask " Where's the power cord ?" Good Luck finding the right set up ...When playing out I use a DA20 AMP Seperate for the Drum machine ONLY - so as to not muddy vocals from the other..

[pdjr1991]

Originally Posted by SpiderTrap999

Depends what you want to use it for ...I have 2 Roland Street Cubes...for small Venues one is more than enough . Advertised at 5 Watts but the sound is incredible , sounds more like 20 or 30 watts, especially on vocals . Everything I have now is Battery operated either NiMh C Cells or 12c volt deep Cycle with SINE WAVE INverter to AC voltage. DA 5 Vox for taking to the beach and playing either acoustic or electric , VERY SMALL BUT BIG Sound ...and battery operated Drummer for some Rhythm . My Suggestion is to Keep it AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE...From DECADES of Experience you DO NOT NEED ALOT of Power to get Great Sound, - unless you're playing an auditorium ...Watch some YOU TUBE giggers and see what they have . There are so many choices out there now , that were not just 10 years ago . I love the advantage of going full AC or
DC - so I can play anywhere ... as people look and ask " Where's the power cord ?" Good Luck finding the right set up ...When playing out I use a DA20 AMP Seperate for the Drum machine ONLY - so as to not muddy vocals from the other..

little to small for my taste. thanks though!

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by VKB

What about along those same lines the 8" in the aer's vs.12" in some of those previously mentioned? I take it the compact 60 doesn't thin comparatively, for instance vs. The SWR CB? ...

It is possible to design a small speaker to produce deeper bass than a large speaker. Many years ago, I demonstrated to incredulous customers, that a KLH speaker system with a 10-inch woofer was capable of deeper bass than a Fisher speaker system with a 15-inch woofer (the Fisher system provided the illusion of deep bass by over emphasizing the mid-bass frequencies). For a small speaker to reproduce lower frequencies, its diaphragm has to move back and forth farther than that of a large speaker. This involves tradeoffs the most obvious of which are power requirement and maximum volume capability. It takes much more amplifier power for an 8-inch speaker to produce the same bass frequency as a 12-inch one and its maximum volume capability limited to a greater degree than that of the larger speaker.

All of this is to say that a small speaker designed to produce the bass frequencies that a guitar is capable of generating isn't necessarily going to sound thinner than a larger speaker.

[rmyAddison]

I drove from Dallas to Oklahoma City to get a Genz Benz Shen Pro, thats how much I like them...........

12" speaker (matters to me), great soft tweeter, TUBE pream, 2 completely independent channels each with its own effects engine, very neutral sound. New models are lighter and less expensive but still pricey.

[bmc]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

It is possible to design a small speaker to produce deeper bass than a large speaker. Many years ago, I demonstrated to incredulous customers, that a KLH speaker system with a 10-inch woofer was capable of deeper bass than a Fisher speaker system with a 15-inch woofer (the Fisher system provided the illusion of deep bass by over emphasizing the mid-bass frequencies). For a small speaker to reproduce lower frequencies, its diaphragm has to move back and forth farther than that of a large speaker. This involves tradeoffs the most obvious of which are power requirement and maximum volume capability. It takes much more amplifier power for an 8-inch speaker to produce the same bass frequency as a 12-inch one and its maximum volume capability limited to a greater degree than that of the larger speaker.

All of this is to say that a small speaker designed to produce the bass frequencies that a guitar is capable of generating isn't necessarily going to sound thinner than a larger speaker.

Check out the 5 inch speakers in Phil Jones bass amps as a case in point.

[royd]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

It is possible to design a small speaker to produce deeper bass than a large speaker.

I play bass in our church band and have seen this more than once. I picked up a Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0-8T, small class D amp with a very small cab with an 8 inch woofer and a tweeter. I figured there would be no bottom and very little volume to the 8 inch woofer. Boy was I wrong. It sounds very, very good and goes very, very deep (which is why I would not shy away from the Compak with the 8 inch woofer). My primary bass cab is an Acme B2 which has 2 10 inch woofers and is designed to accurately reproduce the low B of a 5 string bass. As Herb said, it ends up not being terribly efficient and requires a lot of power but you'd be hard pressed to find a bass cab that really goes lower than it does.

Bottom line (excuse the pun) is that design is everything and size doesn't matter nearly as much as many folk expect.

FWIW, the Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0 bass amp is very transparent and even across the registers. I would expect the Compak 300 to be the same. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that much of the design is exactly the same between the two amps.

[ljguitar]

hi folks...

Where I hear amp speakers fail is sub 8 inch (6 or 6.5 inch specifically). They do not reproduce bass as well nor do they project what they do produce into the room as far.

Roland, ZTLunchbox, and Fishman amps I've used on stage all fail in this regard, and if you sing & play the small woofers really fail in reproducing voice with fidelity.

For some reason 8" woofers do real justice to acoustic guitars, and a fairly good job with voice. Good enough to use them in small venues as a PA.

If you need a substitute PA then 12" would be the minimum. In fact our smallest PA speakers are 12" two way Community speakers we power with 400 watts of reach-out-&-touch power. They will handle multiple guitars, bass & vocals without overloading or wimping out...and guitar amps cannot do that well at all.

AER are great when one is solo. UltraSound and larger Fishman loud boxes handle crowds and loud stages better.

Hope this adds to the discussion...

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by bmc

Check out the 5 inch speakers in Phil Jones bass amps as a case in point.

Also, smaller speakers provide better dispersion and have the potential for better transient response. A speaker with a 12-inch diagram will not disperse frequencies above around 1,130 Hz as well as one with an 8-inch radiating surface and an 8-inch will not disperse frequencies above approximately 1,690 Hz as well as a 5-inch. Transient response refers to a speaker's ability to stop and start (attack) and the lower mass of a small cone is easier to stop and start.

In the aggregate an SWR California Blonde II or a Carvin AG100D both of which have 12-inch woofers, may provide better performance for some circumstances than amps with smaller woofers but in other circumstances it could be the other way around.

[mikealpine]

Originally Posted by pdjr1991

The Fishman loudbox is sounding pretty good to me. Im wondering about the mini vs the artist series.

I played an Artist today. I was very surpised at how small it is. I only played guitar so I can't speak to vocals, but the guitar (an outstanding Taylor 816CE that I wanted to take home...) sounded really wonderful. The price difference is about $170, and I think it adds quite a bit of power while keeping it in a small package, so if you have the additional budget, I think it makes sense. I'm leaning that way myself. Hope that helps!

[pdjr1991]

Originally Posted by mikealpine

I played an Artist today. I was very surpised at how small it is. I only played guitar so I can't speak to vocals, but the guitar (an outstanding Taylor 816CE that I wanted to take home...) sounded really wonderful. The price difference is about $170, and I think it adds quite a bit of power while keeping it in a small package, so if you have the additional budget, I think it makes sense. I'm leaning that way myself. Hope that helps!

thanks for the input! it seems logical to spend the extra little dough for what it offers. i think 8" should be good enough. i know theres alot of debating about that on this thread

[pdjr1991]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

hi folks...

Where I hear amp speakers fail is sub 8 inch (6 or 6.5 inch specifically). They do not reproduce bass as well nor do they project what they do produce into the room as far.

Roland, ZTLunchbox, and Fishman amps I've used on stage all fail in this regard, and if you sing & play the small woofers really fail in reproducing voice with fidelity.

For some reason 8" woofers do real justice to acoustic guitars, and a fairly good job with voice. Good enough to use them in small venues as a PA.

If you need a substitute PA then 12" would be the minimum. In fact our smallest PA speakers are 12" two way Community speakers we power with 400 watts of reach-out-&-touch power. They will handle multiple guitars, bass & vocals without overloading or wimping out...and guitar amps cannot do that well at all.

AER are great when one is solo. UltraSound and larger Fishman loud boxes handle crowds and loud stages better.

Hope this adds to the discussion...

looks like that fishman loudbox is sounding more appealing.

[ukejon]

It is a well designed, well built, fine sounding amp. You will love it.